Unlocked Palm Pre 2 is still geo-restricted for apps 54
Now that the Palm Pre 2 is available SIM-free in the UK (and Germany too, but not in a QWERTZ fashion as we'd hoped), we figured we should put out a quick PSA. When you activate it, that device will be locked down in a different way than you might think: by geography for apps. In short, you will only be able to see apps in the App Catalog that are marked as available for the country of origin for your SIM. PreCentral reader Markus points us to a Palm Knowledgebase article that lays down the law:
Each phone is associated with a specific country. The country is assigned automatically the first time a Palm profile is created on the phone. The App Catalog apps you can access are based on the country associated with the phone.
For GSM phones that use a SIM card: The country is based on the location of the wireless service provider that issued the SIM card. For example, if the SIM card is issued by a wireless service provider in Germany, and you were in France when you created the phone’s first Palm profile, the phone is still associated with Germany.
For CDMA phones: The country is based on the location of the wireless service provider network you used to create the phone’s first Palm profile. For example, if your wireless service provider is in the United States but you were in Canada when you created the phone’s first Palm profile, the phone is associated with Canada and not the United States.
This is nothing new for webOS devices, of course, but it is a little disappointing that once a Pre 2 is set to a region, it's set firmly and nigh-impossible to switch that region, as Rod Whitby notes on Twitter:
Device record is a one-time deal. Create it outside an approved country and it's no paid apps for you, regardless of profile
In other words, use extreme care when slapping a SIM into your new unlocked Pre 2 - for better or worse, you'll be making a choice that you can't turn back from when you do.
Source: Golem.de (German Pre not QWERTZ), Palm Knowledgebase, @webosinternals; Thanks Markus, gizmo21!
54 Comments
good to know
Is this a confirmation that it will work this way for the time being or just a reminder for those buying a new Pre2?
I really hope HP will soon open the app catalog!
Yes, one app catalog...for all...would be nice...
If they can clear it from refurbished phones they can clear it from any phone. Palm needs to provide a way to fix this. People move from place to place.
> Palm needs to provide a way to fix this.
... if they don't want people to only flaunt their webOS device
with free apps, or pirating
but couldn't you get a unlocked device from over seas and when you activate it here you just use your existing account for the initial setup which would geographically set it firmly here?
unless they activate it before they ship it. Which would make no sense because your buying an unlocked Pre2.
in which case couldn't I get a GSM Pre2 from over seas and slap a T-mobile sim in it (seeing t-mobile is the only GSM network here using the same 3G bands as overseas) and it would be locked here right?
or grab a CDMA Pre2 activate it here with a temp palm profile wipe it clean then re-activate it with my existing Palm Profile and it would be geographically set here also..
I could be wrong that's why I ask about this. There may be a few others thinking the same thing on this subject.
You are correct.
-- Rod
Is this insanity never going to stop? I've been using a Palm Pre Minus now from the beginning, and because I activitated it in The Netherlands, I've never been able to use paid apps, while I _want_ to give them my money.
not that this is ever gonna effect me but, UGH! I cannot possibly understand the rationale behind that. [black eye HPalm]
I have a Palm Pre- from Spain, the guy activated it for me there. I'm using it happily in the Netherlands, with purchasing abilities.
There's a thread going on in which GuyFromNam states that the Palm Knowledgebase is probably wrong.
http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-2/268744-activation-outside-uk.html
I really hope anyone could shed some light on this.
AR
The Palm knowledge base article example contains two official countries. It is unclear about unofficial countries, and our experience is different from what you might assume from reading their article if you try and activate in an unofficial country, even with a SIM from an official country.
So we need someone to test it out, but unfortunately that may leave you with a device that is irrevocably locked out of paid apps.
-- Rod
What's the reasoning behind having different app lists in different countries? I honestly don't know and can't think of a good reason for it. Is it Palm doing the blocking, or the governments of the various countries?
Palm is in charge of the blocking but the governments require it by law.
Palm would obviously love to sell all their apps everywhere.
Corporations do not try and limit their reach, that would be basically like kicking yourself in the balls.
Governments are the ones that enforce this kind of regulation.
But why is it that in the 'old days', we can just get our apps from Palmgear and that's it? What changed?
I've ordered a Pre 2 but wasn't aware of this at all, and I temporarily live in the UK now.
So what happens when you put in a SIM card from a different country (after you initially set it)? Does it simply not show you the apps for that new country, or does the app store stop working altogether?
Wouldn't completely wiping your device (=a hard reset) fix it?
Speaking from the perspective of what I've experienced with my Pre: you will *always* stay on the app catalogue based on your initial activation.
Case in-point.
-I bought an AT&T Pre+ and threw my att SIM in it.
-I unlocked it with Nextgenunlock
-I went home & put in my Rogers SIM
-- I always get the USA app catalogue.
-- I only get OTA updates when AT&T does.
I hope this helps.
It certainly does help.
I'm much obliged!
is it so hard to make a awesome phone lol seriously my next one is android I have enough of this stupid bsish :)
Not to be a negative-nancy, but this is the kind of thing that inspires some people to pirate software. They'll use it as a justification for their actions, "Well I can't buy it in my country so I'm not technically stealing it!".
It is still stealing and it mostly hurts the party not to blame, but it becomes sort of a necessity theft.
There are for instance lots of people that steal because they are to poor to survive otherwise. It's never the less stealing, and they are perfectly aware of it. Just as they are aware that they wouldn't do it if they didn't need to.
Interesting information. What seems new here is that previously it was said that you could not activate the phone roaming. You had to be on a UK network using a UK sim.
Hey guys, I have a Masters In Media Production so I will explain this all for you.
Each government has certian 'media' laws restricting the viewing of content from other countries.
Sadly, these media consortiums (FCC, CRTC in Canada etc) have taken it upon themselves to consider the Internet and Smartphones media.
Basically they forsee the death of television and radio, and in an attempt to not lose their cushy jobs, they are attacking the Internet and new technologies like Smartphones.
This is also why you cant watch British content in America online, or stream Hulu in Canada, or Spotify outside of Europe.
All of these providers would LOVE to get your money, this is not a business thing, its a government regulatory thing. No business would elect to ever do this, it is completely opposite to making money.
Palm and HP, and the same with other Smartphone OSes are required to allow their developers to block their apps from certian region codes that disallow that content from being viewed in that area.
Plus, it also has to do with international purchasing of goods using a credit card.
So this is not a Palm/HP thing. Other smartphone OSes are the same way, this is completely a regulatory issue and if you have a problem with it please send a letter to your local MP or Political Representative to let them know how you feel on the issue of Geography based content and purchase regulations
How then does an app catalog such as Ovi Store from Nokia is able to offer the same catalog for all countries? At least I am not aware there is a geographic limitation. They even charged me in my local currency (Im from Costa Rica) when I bought an application.
I had to go from an unlocked Palm Centro to a unlocked Nokia C6 due to a lack of any new alternative offered by Palm in my location, and even now that for the first time there is a glimpse again of an unlocked device, It seems it is not completely "unlocked"...
rmausser, i think you don't get the point of this limitation. It is not only that, as you write, for legal reasons contents might be limited to specific countries or regions. This is allowed by developers defining in which countries they want their apps to be sold or seen.
The problem here is another one. Just imagine that you today buy a computer in UK. you register your device connecting to the internet in UK and are able to see all the content available to the users in the specific country/region UK is.
When u decide u want to move in USA, u bring ur computer with u. The surprise here is: u still can see UK content, but u are totally unable to access USA content, even if u are in the US, and even if u use a US provider.
I hope this helps clarify the idea, because there seems to be no legal reason to this, just a wrong limitation, which, I think, also limits ur chance to properly use the product u buy. Do we need to buy a new Palm Pre for each country we want to use it fully?
Am I understanding this correctly, that as long as one has an 'unlocked' GSM phone, one could be anywhere in the world and as long as they use a US (AT&T or T-Mobile) SIM to create the phone
That is my understanding -- supported by my experience doing exactly that with the Pre+.
Once the initial device record is created, it can be used with any profile, and can be used anywhere in the world (even on wifi).
It's all about that first irrevocable act of creating the device record.
My experience shows that you need to be in an official country when doing that. But there are people who claim otherwise. But it is clear that the safest thing is to be in an official country using an official carrier partner when activating the phone for the first time.
-- Rod
okay I know this off topic but a coworker of mine jus got hd7 from tmobile when he first got there wasn't that many apps for it jus a weekend later they have more big name apps than us ebay, where, etc it's a lil depressing
A question: If I buy a Pre 2 in France and activate it there BUT with an existing Palm Profile attached to the US App Catalog, I will get the France Apps or those from US?
@cmahy
Really? That is contrary to everyone else's experience and the collective knowledge gathered in this regard so far. So far it is believed that the phone gets locked to the app store of whichever country the phone is physically present when creating the phone's firt Palm profile. Could you please share your experience, with the following details:
1. Country of purchase.
2. Unlocking procedure (In case the phoen was network locked).
3. Country where the phone was physically present, when the first Palm profile was created.
4. SIM card (Network/Country) used to create the first Palm profile.
This would be of immense help to a lot of people.
1: Germany, through Norwegian shop.
2: None, unlocked.
3: Norway.
4: Ventelo, Norway.
I appreciate that this is a frustrating subject, but the Palm knowledge base would suggest this ie: @cmahy comments to be true.
If it actually is true it should just mean getting a sim card from the country in which you wish to have access to the app catalogue.
Quote:
"For GSM phones that use a SIM card: The country is based on the location of the wireless service provider that issued the SIM card. For example, if the SIM card is issued by a wireless service provider in Germany, and you were in France when you created the phone
Note that France and Germany are both official countries. Our experience is otherwise for unofficial countries, but we'd like to hear from anyone who has tested that specific scenario (first activation in an unofficial country using a SIM from an official country and then able to access paid apps).
-- Rod
Sure -- I think I omitted a clarifying note earlier. To your questions:
1. Country of Purchase: USA / AT&T Store
3 & 4. Phone was physically present in the USA with an AT&T SIM card (I was traveling & have an AT&T account in addition to my Canadian SIM).
2. Unlocking Procedure: NextGenUnlock with a Windows XP machine that had never 'seen' a Pre before.
A few notes:
** I re-ordered your question to better reflect what actually happened for me
** Even though I have a Rogers SIM card (Canada) in my phone 90% of the time an am in Canada most of the time: everything about my phone acts like it's American & AT&T --> for example, I was able to participate in the American App sale despite being north of the border.
I hope that helps,
Chris
So, if I buy a Pre 2, and activate it in Australia, I won't get any paid apps, but how would I get updates when it isn't connected to any carrier?
You probably won't. It looks like HP is killing the Pre.
You won't get paid apps.
You will get updates, based on the model of the device, not the carrier. Those two usually match, but when they don't, the model takes precedence.
-- Rod
This is ridiculous. It's almost as though Hpalm is doing things to kill the platform for smartphones and give consumers a reason to avoid the Pre 2, not that they need any more reason than the hardware it runs on. What's the point of paying a premium for a so-called unlocked phone if it locks to a region as soon as you activate it with a SIM?? That's a blatant rip off.
there needs to be a number 5.: which countrys app catalog can you use.
Well i can understand that there has to be way to restrict an appcatalog by country, but this is not the whole problem here. I can't understand why palm sells unlocked phones and still has only app catalogs for 7 different countrys:
US, Mexico,Canada,Spain,France ,UK,Germany which are the countries where the original Pre handsets where carrier bound.
The funny thing is in germany where the pre was unlocked on O2 since day 1, you where always be able to use a T-Mobile sim to activate and also use paid apps catalog of germany. It seems Palm planned that feature to lock it to a carrier (and country) which may work with a CDMA-device, but is not really suitable in the GSM-world.
you get telmap navigation from o2 only by using their network and sim-card, so carrier specific apps also work in gsm-world
Will there be an enterprising US resident person step up as a trusted intermediary agent for activation purpose? The job is simple: buy a Palm Pre 2 GSM unlocked phone from HP directly, slip in an AT&T prepaid pay as you go SIM, activate a Palm Profile for the real buyer & shipped it to the real buyer worldwide. That way the real buyer will get a US app catalogue. You'll be a worldwide Palm reseller :-D
Can't see how this lockdown policy would have been instituted by anyone but Palm and HP is only following same policy.
Can't wait to get back to an unlocked phone, but don't know who from.
Might be Palm if they decide to open up.
Doesn't really cause US customers any difficulty but can see how in Europe it might be troublesome.
(Palm Pre) Each phone is associated with a specific country. The country is assigned automatically the first time a Palm profile is created on the phone. The App Catalog apps you can access are based on the country associated with the phone.
Phones associated with the following countries or regions can use App Catalog to purchase apps and to download free apps:
Canada, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, Spain, United Kingdom, United States
Phones associated with the following countries or regions can use App Catalog to download free apps:
Australia, Austria, Belgium, China, Czech Republic, France, Hong Kong, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Switzerland
Re: unlocked pre plus in Asia - Palm Support Community
http://forums.palm.com/t5/Palm-Services-for-webOS/unlocked-pre-plus-in-A...
Is there anyway to 'change' it, WebOS Internals?
What I am not happy is why can Windows phone and Android phone (iphone of course) do it but not HP palm? Make both paid and free apps available for all users, esp APAC?
Also why did we have problems with palmOs then and even now but buying applications off mobilegears or the likes and paying to those sites, then downloading or installing out apps onto the phone? Wouldn't that have been better and create more reach to the users?
Or could apps be developed like chapura where its a free trail apps and if you like it, you can paid for it at the company's website and it will activated the next time that you use it. Isn't this the same case for classic?
If there are no options or competitors are doing the EXACT same things, then I have nothing to say. But Palm being such a small company (now its big) is even more dumbly restrictive than other guys in the market... how could they have expected the apps store to grow or phone usage to grow, even with unlocked palm pre 2?
Interesting information. What seems new here is that previously it was said that you could not activate the phone roaming. You had to be on a UK network using a UK sim.
Ok you idiots.
Rahul Sood is a fraudster. He didn't leave, he was fired. But you always get the option to resign unless you are committing federal crimes.
Rahul is also known as twitter.com/stockgod and after being booted from stocktwits.com by howard lindzon he founded bullsonwallstreet.com.
Rahul has had a brief career as a stock promoter and an utter twitter troll. The guy is a complete ass and an ego maniac. I have talked with him personally, and he is a loser IMHO.
HP is better off not to have this dead weight from a buyout floating around. Not like the guy actually did anything useful at HP, other than run his mouth.
**also the bulls site has had a few of the partners leave; but they refused to refund the prepaid membership subscriptions, says there was an account setup fee. The guy is a loser; just face it.
wrong thread you fuckin' idiot
This is just incredible. Palm/HP has to get this fixed. Right now it's very simple. I cannot possible spend another few hundred euros on what would be a great device in order to once again live without paid apps.
HP are you listening? Please fix this.
I, and many others, want to support you and want to give you and your developers money.
You are ACTIVELY preventing this and driving us away.
Thanks!
Oh, and what on earth will happen if (when) you release a tablet? Do you really think we will buy a tablet we can't put anything other than free apps onto?
WTF are you thinking?
Ignoring this issue will not make it go away
I want to use a pre 2 in belgium
So, if i put an uk o2 sim in the pre in belgium, i will be able to use the paid app catalog?
Or do i have to activate it in uk?
Thx in advance
Good question.. and here's another one. How come Apple simply allows you to create different accounts on AppleStore for each country, simply asking for your agreement on country-specific regulations? Wouldn't this be enough for WebOS as well? -_^
Sorry.. was replying to Jeffyen:
But why is it that in the 'old days', we can just get our apps from Palmgear and that's it? What changed?
One more question... what if I commute between two different countries (in my case China and Italy) switch from a GSM sim to another all the time?
Would I have access to the Italian appstore when in Italy and to the Chinese one when in China?
No. Your appstore will always show relative to the country you activated against.
The problem for you is that, to my knowledge, neither Italy nor China are 'official' Palm locations. Similar to Rod's point, you would be best to activate your Pre in an official Country with a SIM card from that same country before you travel (and then you'd be using the one app cat. all the time)