Verizon Wireless announces location APIs, but not for webOS 59
You may recall that, as part of its final response (and denial) last week about their webOS aGPS issue, Verizon Wireless promised a bit of potential help in the future:
We are working on offering location APIs / LBS enablers for our developer community. Please check the http://developer.verizon.com for updates. Later this month at our VDC Conference 2010 event, we will be talking about these LBS/location enablers in detail.
Well, Verizon's Developer Conference was today, and sure enough, VZW announced a new set of location-related APIs collectively called "NAVBuilder Inside" or NBI. Only problem is, webOS was conspicuously absent from their list of supported platforms. The APIs, which cover both access to navigation systems generally and interaction with VZ Navigator, are being offered only for Android, Blackberry, Brew, and Windows Mobile. We checked with webOS Internals' Rod Whitby, who confirmed that these are "binary libraries, [with] no support for webOS."
We have reached out to both Verizon Wireless and Palm for comments on this newest rejection of webOS developers and users. Meanwhile, James Harris, creator of GPS Fix continues his investigation in our forum of the oddities of GPS function on Verizon Pre Plus and Pixi Plus phones.
Source: GigaOm
59 Comments
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-n... GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-n... GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the main thing: Verizon isn't the "bad guy". Verizon is doing as a wireless carrier what so many developers have been doing for some time now, and that's ignoring WebOS.
VZ has been breaking GPS and other features longer than WebOS has been around. And they've been overcharging for longer than that.
Yeah, they've been equally bad about some things, and for other things, it seems that they've been worse towards WebOS. That's what this article is about and what I was addressing.
No, they're not ignoring webOS - they're deliberately holding the APIs back from webOS as part of their decision to cripple webOS's GPS capabilities.
You make it sound like Verizon has some kind of vendetta against WebOS. What do you think is more likely, verizon having a vendetta or them ignoring a struggling OS?
Given Verizon's LONG history of purposefully crippling devices on its network to "encourage" (or force) users to use its expensive and subpar services instead...I'm going to go with vendetta. You sound like you don't understand the situation. Verizon *purposefully* crippled the Pre's GPS. Then it said it'd release developer APIs to compensate and they did - but not for the Pre. If they had just IGNORED THE STRUGGLING OS FROM THE GET GO, THE GPS WOULD WORK! BUT THEY DIDN'T IGNORE IT - THAT'S WHY IT DOESN'T WORK! I don't know how to spell it out for you any clearer, so if you want to keep sipping Big Red's koolaid, more power to you.
+1
Providing a service advertised at the time of sale should not be considered a "favor" or an extra, it should be an obligation. The free Mobile Hotspot is a bonus, reasonably timely OS updates and services as advertised are not.
If V really finds selling the Pre onerous, they should man up and say so. Offer all users a "no penalty" out of their contract and let us move on. I suspect they are hedging their bets to see what the new hardware is like before they are willing to do that.
To those posting that we should just accept this as the way it is because of a lack of platform popularity... I have a battery to sell you for your Pre. It's a 2800mAh battery - really! If you get it and it says it's an 1150mAh battery... I'm guessing you won't mind.
C
Ok guess I'll have to spell things out for you further
"Verizon's LONG history of purposefully crippling devices on its network to "encourage" (or force) users to use its expensive and subpar services instead"... Right. This is something Verizon does to bunch of handhelds from the get-go. This is the baseline, understand? You have to understand this business aspect. For other carriers, the baseline is different, but for Verizon, this is the baseline. They put in effort to release APIs for other OSes. The key word here is "effort." They did not put in the effort to do the same for WebOS. This is what I mean when I say WebOS was ignored. Therefore, Verizon is doing what a bunch of other developers have been doing with WebOS -- ignoring it. This is not a vendetta. It's a business decision about how to best allocate resources.
Does that make sense to you, or do you want me to to bust out the caps lock and Kool Aid references like you did?
No, because your theory is BS, so sparing me your CAP-LOCKED stupidity is very much a service, thank you.
This is an ENTIRELY different situation because it's not independent developers not porting over a service to a phone - it's Verizon purposefully taking away a service that the phone already has. It's not a business decision on how to best allocate resources, it's a business decision on how to continue to screw over its customers.
You're operating from the position that every device is crippled, so them not providing webOS the APIs is just them ignoring webOS - however, this is faulty premise to even take in the first place, because it absolves Verizon of the ORIGINAL (and thus, the only RELEVANT) decision - crippling the phone in the first place.
"It's not a business decision on how to best allocate resources, it's a business decision on how to continue to screw over its customers."
You must be joking. You cannot be this dense. Diamonds must fritter away at the sound of your voice.
How is this even showing how Verizon has a vendetta against Palm or are you talking out of your ass? I like to make stuff up too, but come on, what I've been talking about is not a difficult concept to grasp. Do you understand why Verizon cripples phones or not?
I'm not sure that VZW ignoring webos is a bad thing. I don't understand how these APIs are going to be deployed onto the devices. Moreover, what would the impact have been to webos if there was a set of APIs only available on VZW phones?
Were this available on webos, wouldn't this create fragmentation? Wouldn't developers need to release two versions of the app: one for VZW and a different one for everyone else?
The developer and carrier comparison mentioned above makes no sense at all. A developer isn't collecting money from you on a monthly basis to provide service to you.
Is this just the comment of a hater, or was it really that poorly thought out?
If I'm paying a developer to support a product (as many of us do in business - a software maintenance contract) and I'm NOT getting services as advertised.. I will get in that developer's face.
"Is this just the comment of a hater, or was it really that poorly thought out?"
Whoa there, buddy. Before you start comments like that, you better stop and think. I wasn't saying that developers and carriers function exactly the same. Of course a developer doesn't charge you monthly and whatever.
Are they both capable of ignoring products? Yes. That is the point. The point was that the carrier isn't interested in allocating enough resources towards WebOS.
WebOS is getting ignored, as it does among many in the developer community. How many apps are there in the catalog right now? After how long? How is this concept to comprehend? Verizon is a business. Things change when products aren't selling, right?
Then why even make the comparison. And no, your conclusion is not right.
(BTW the app count game is a lame one. How many apps does the Blackberry have 10,000 maybe? Does that make it a worthless platform? While we may have preferences, I would never argue that the Blackberry is worthless because after all there years they have only twice as many apps as the Pre and not the 100k of Apple.)
The carrier is PAID by me. Monthly. And unless I continue pay him monthly for the term of my contract, he can hit me up for a hefty penalty.
Since I pay the carrier, I should have the basic expectation of services. If the carrier does not want to allocate basic resources, I should have the right to terminate the contract at anytime after his decision to limit services.
It's simple. Here is an example. You rent an apartment on a 2 year lease. The landlord decides to no longer provide heat because it costs him too much money to maintain. You can plug in space heaters, but should you be required to? And should you be forced to continue paying your agreed upon rent, or to be stuck for the full term of your lease?
It's basic business, right?
Why make the comparison?
"Are they both capable of ignoring products? Yes. That is the point."
They are both examples of WebOS getting ignored. Understand? Did you read the post at all? Come on.
Do you not think WebOS is getting ignored by developers? How about I don't use "lame" app counts. How does a study sound?
http://www.appcelerator.com/mobile-developer-survey-june-2010/
Compare that to earlier surveys and you'll see a downtrend. There's my evidence right there of WebOS getting ignored by developers. I don't know how I can make it any more clear to you.
Both Verizon and developers are capable of ignoring WebOS. Verizon doesn't have to function exactly like developers to be able to ignore something. I'm not making an assumption that they do. Clear? Verizon isn't interested in allocating enough resources towards WebOS. This is what the evidence suggests. This is very simple to understand. What does the evidence suggest to you?
But you still didn't answer my question?
And even though you acknowledge the difference between a free-agent developer and service provider under contract, being paid monthly... you apparently are choosing to ignore the question of is it proper to ignore paying customers without giving them legal recourse to terminate their contract,
So if all you have is developers are ignoring webOS (insert bronx cheer here), I guess there is not much else to talk about.
Answer the question, if you can with a straight face.
hp should not bother pressuring verizon, they should offer to 'take care' of your switch to another carrier.
That's as laughable a suggestion as HP actually getting something out of VZW.
wish sprint had the pre+. then i would have gone with them instead of verizon.
Which merely confirms an opinion formed long ago, when I tried Verizon and then actually paid the cancellation fee to get away from their crippled phones, lousy customer service (I don't care how responsive they are, if you get no satisfaction from a responsive and polite service rep, it's only marginally better than bad service reps). If you just want a phone, I think they might be fine. If you actually want to use a smartphone, you're not in their demographic.
/edit - and this was long before the Pre and WebOS
It seems to me that Verizon doesn't care about WebOS because the WebOS community is shrinking more and more so why would they throw resorces at something they don't see promise in? Well it seems to me that Verizon is all about the money and so they have become arrogant and will continue to do so until they start losing enough customers to make a difference in their quarterly earnings. That will probably happen in about 3-10 years depending on how the economy does in the next two years. I am leaning more toward 3 years because the economy is horrible and doesn't look to be going up for awhile.
Do you realize how silly that sounds? A large company that's putting money and time where there are plenty of customers and a wide development base? Perish the thought!
all of which is precisely why I continually move people away from that network whenever I get the chance. Verizon you fail miserably.
What's the deal with companies and their fascination with cash and profits? It just doesn't add up. It's almost like they exist to make money. Worldview=shattered.
Well, by some miracle, WebOS maintained marketshare in a growing market, but, somehow, is shrinking?
Better check your facts. They aren't shrinking. They may not be growing like Android, but they are clearly growing at the same rate as the smartphone market.
Lets see, they are pretty much discontinuing the Palm Pre+, not sure about Pixi, and add the fact that Palm has yet to keep it's base energized with any word on a new smartphone, HP buys them out, people bleed from the talent pool, and all I have heard for 5 months is it's coming next month, blah, blah, blah.
Palm is why Verizon probably doesn't want to spend big bucks on development until they know they there is a plan, like so many of us users out there that bought into the hype that Palm was the deal.
Now as for a crap network, sorry to have to say this but Sprint in my area was horrible, I had to use an Airave to even make a call from home, dropped calls all the time when I was almost home or leaving for work. With Verizon, I can actual be on the phone, get out of my car and walk into the house, all without a dropped call. Wow, I like that! I do miss how voicemail and the MobiTV was with Sprint, but oh well, there's an app for that!
Crippled phones, not seeing it myself at the moment on my Droid X, and the fact that I at least know what is coming down the pipe is nice (or bad considering).
But lay the blame were it belongs, at Palms doorstep. Go Verizon, make a profit, let the Palm Tree Huggers cry all day. I enjoyed my Pre at Sprint, but after watching everyone else in the industry, HTC, Moto, Samsung, etc release a new phone almost monthly, I wanted an upgrade, waiting more then a year as a heavy mobi user is way to long.
@dthurman: " let the Palm Tree Huggers cry all day"
ahhhh...WHAT?
I think you might have confused your rants between two different forums. This is Wednesday...you are on the Palm forum today, not the "Fox News" forums.
Kind of like the guy who cheats on his wife, but still wants a place to come home to for clean laundry and meals so won't come out tell her.
Last I've seen, Verizon still sells the Pixi and the Pre and I go into the stores and deal with their business unit at least twice a month. Granted the phones are at the end of their sales life cycle, but does that mean the phones no longer merit support? (Unless the are providing no penalty upgrades to the new webOS phones)
The whole new model of a phone every 60 days is an Android generated reality (different manufacturers by the way,)which Palm will need to respond to going forward.
But, exactly how does that give Verizon license to ignore paying customers UNDER CONTRACT? After my contract is up, then I'm cool with that as I have a choice.
All the more reason for HP/Palm to avoid Verizon in the future, but people won't. They'll still over-pay for average service and closed systems. It'll be even more hilarious when they start making everyone funnel their apps and app catalogs to their Verizon "Store" so they can make a piece off of it too.
Sorry, but if hp avoids Verizon with new phones, I'll just avoid new hp phones
The reaity is that even with the known and intentional crippling of features like this gps issue, overall Verizon is still my preferred provider.
I see any future switch being from webos to andriod before I see it being verizon to sprint. Although I would prefer it that hp step up and release some new phones so that Verizon (and the other carriers) have a reason to be excited about webos again.
-Suntan
VZ will pay for this
Who's up for a class action?
Not happy at Verizon. It's costing way to much. Heading to Sprint when contract ends.
maybe I've been dense in the past, but I've always been happy with verizon's coverage and service. But, the Pre+ is my first smartphone. Now, as a 10yr family plan subscriber, I'm likely to pay the early termination fee if palm's next phone is what I hope. And they are hoping to expand into my home with fios in the next year. I think I'd rather revert to smoke signals at this point... the API is better defined than verizon's location services.
This is a double whammy, first google doesnt build all the features for the map like turn by turn directions, and then verizon cripples the GPS. Can Palm really take care of those two things?
WebOS doesn't need the Google Maps app.
I have been using something far better for a while now. BFGMaps. Get it on Preware or at http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/?packageid=com.watchmefreak.bfgmaps
Includes Features:
Directions
Street View
Type to Search uses both Yahoo and Google
Favorites
Traffic
Multiple Layers
Foursquare
Buzz
It is what Google should have been and the developer is fully open to suggestions for new features.
BFGMaps is great as long as you don't try to use its directions. It sent me on a huge wild goose chase a couple of weeks ago, while Google Maps gave me accurate directions to the same place from the same starting point.
Evo time!
VZ gets my money for FiOS and FiOS TV, only... Not for any sort of telephony. Neither local phone service, nor for long distance phone service, nor for the cellular variety either.
Hey VZW if you're listening, this is what competition is about. Make/Offer a good product/service and I'll buy it. Make/Offer a crappy one and I won't. It doesn't matter how much you bundle crap to entice me to buy it. Cheap crap is crap still and it is not worth the money you think it is worth charging for. Simple as that.
Cheers! /mauro
PS Need marketing info? Telecommuter I/T worker. FiOS , FiOS TV with extreme HD, telephony courtesy of Sprint PCS, and Vonage. Prior setup: TimeWarner RoadRunner for 7 years, GTE local phone, AT&T LD and cellular for 10+ years. I'm not kidding make it worth it and I'll change; don't and see me go elsewhere.
Masked webOS Defender, we need you again!!!
this is why palm need to concentrate alot more in europe, we dont have this sort of BS going on with carriers over here in the UK i.e GPS issues etc.
Am just saying!!!
I agree to 2 options...(1) Major class action lawsuit against Verizon to fix the APIs...we're a MAJOR player now with muscle to back us from HP...need to get them to support us in this cause; (2) Return of the Masked webOS Defender and spamming Verizon at 3:00pm! This bullshit has got to stop! I've tried the Google MAPS on the PRE phones with Sprint and ATT and there is no problem...it's just with Verizon!
It is seriously time for a class action lawsuit. It seems to be the only way Verizon will cave in and fix aGPS on a phone that they have broken. Even my Curve 8330 had broken GPS functionality. Shock...I know.
Anyone here know a good lawyer that will take this one up?
Since the release of their Droid last year, Verizon's path has been obvious to everyone andd thats towards Android. They only brought Palm aboard to regain their customers back that they lost to Sprint when their Storm smartphone failed miserably. This position was supported by the fact that when potential customers walked into a Verizon store wanting to upgrade from a dumb phone they were aggressively steered away from the webOS products and pointed towards the Droid and other devices running Android.
If anything, Verizon is going out of its way to thwart the growth of webOS by delaying the release of updates and the disabling GPS in Palm phones. Hey, the GPS works fine in the Droid.
dont forget the mom commercials
hmmm... When I went in and said I was looing for a compact smartphone with a real keyboard, the vzw guy happiy suggested I look at the Pre+ before he suggested looking at the (then newly released) Droid.
Perhaps the reality is that since the release of the droid there have been umpteen hundred newer android phones released but still the same two avaiable from palm.
Maybe if vzw refused to pic up a new phone from hp I could see the case for saying that vzw doesn't care about webos phones, but like it or not vzw currently carries *every* webos phone available today...
-Suntan
Adding insult to injury, VZW continues to highlight "standalone GPS" as a marquee feature of the pre plus. Given that they list VZNav separately, what exactly is it about the pre GPS feature on verizon that deserves such acclaim? yeah... "standalone GPS," as in 'use the GPS without paying $10 per month and we'll leave you standing alone wondering where the hell you are.'
Hi all, MY contract with V ends in 3 weeks. As soon as a new webOS phone is announced for S, I will leave V asap!
Take care,
jay
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-n... GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-n...
GO AND VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!
no love for webos. stuck in a catch 22 dilemma.
HPalm need to release their new "Moses Phone" On Sprint, T-Mobile, AT&T, Canadian, South of the Border and European carriers simultaneously or withing close launch date, and market the hell out of it. And leave big Red standing alone out in the cold. Just sayin
HPalm need to release their new "Moses Phone" On Sprint, T-Mobile, AT&T, Canadian, South of the Border and European carriers simultaneously or withing close launch date, and market the hell out of it. And leave big Red standing alone out in the cold. Just sayin
I switched to Verizon because they had the cheapest deal for the palm pre plus. If the next device isnt on Verizon, Im going to be PISSED.
I think the location APIs will come to webOS it just might take some time. I used VZ Navigator on a long trip this summer and it worked fine. My hope is that Verizon is busy testing webOS 2 and that there is no delay when that is available. Not having the free Google GPS work properly is annoying, not having the latest webOS would be something to really complain about.
Cancelled VZ Navigator this morning. I'll go back to using my Treo with the TomTom software and blue tooth receiver. It is has more features, works reliably, and I don't need to pay for it again every month. I'll give VZW a couple months to see if they are releasing any GPS APIs and to see if they are releasing new hardware. If the answer to one or both questions is negative, I'll buy a stand alone GPS this fall.
I told the customer service person why I was cancelling and if I get a follow-up call from them because of my following customer service survey responses, I will tell them again and suggest they bump the comments up to people who care.
I've been on Verizon for four months and I don't have a problem with them. But I was coming from AT&T which I hated. So the GPS kinda sucks. Once it does lock on to you in works pretty well in my opinion. The only phone feature I use GPS for anyways is google maps and more recently the awesome navigation app called NavIt. I mean the Pre is the first phone I have had that really makes use of GPS. For me the GPS has served me pretty well. Yeah it takes a while to lock on sometimes depending on where I am. But this isnt a Tom Tom or any other high end navigation system. Its a phone. So I guess I just wonder how other phones/other networks are better. Do other phones lock onto you right away when opening a map app or something. Is the Palm Pre REALLY the worst phone on Verizon to have for GPS?
i've been with VZW for years. it appears that they are finalizing a divorce with Palm. I may need to consider another carrier when my contract(s) renew.
just remember, this isn't an issue about driving directions. it's about being useless for location-based services. they clearly didn't understand LBS when they made GPS decisions.