WebGL Support Begins to Arrive in WebKit 20
Less than a week ago we discussed how perfect WebGL would be for the WebOS. Aside from the similar names they're both built around web standards. Well the stars must be aligning, because WebGL is back in the news, with a common connection to the WebOS: the WebKit core.
For those unfamiliar, WebKit is the opensource engine that renders all the WebOS apps and is what makes the website formatting on the Pre look so good. And while WebKit also powers many of the major web browsers out there (include the Android and iPhone browsers), the WebOS is virtually centered around it, so when news like this surfaces, we should pay some attention.
It appears Wolfire's blog has discovered traces of the WebGL in the WebKit, in the form of a 3D canvas element. The results of initial layout tests can be shown in the above video, and is pretty impressive, all things considered.
The more I think about it, the more I believe Palm would be fools to not integrate WebGL into the WebOS. It's such a perfect combo and it seems the WebGL component could be delivered to Palm via future WebKit builds anyway. It's not unreasonable to believe Palm could adapt OpenGL for the WebOS Linux core, and leave the WebGL as frontend for developers. That fits Palm's WebOS persona of hiding the Linux core and leaving the open web standards for developers.
WebGL isn't even in the in nightly builds yet, so if you want to try it out, you'll need to compile it freshly from the source. It'll certainly be a while yet before it gets integrated in any browsers for the public, but once its out there, it would be incredible:
In the same way Gmail is killing desktop mail applications, full-fledged 3d video games could start migrating to the web.
Or in our case, possibly migrating to the WebOS. I sincerely hope Palm integrates WebGL. This new web standard is progressing fast, as if they don't act, you just know others will. Plus I'd really love to see the kind of OS-wide effects such advancements could have with added 3D functionality.
20 Comments
if 3d gaming was just about scripting a generic 3d engine, we wouldn't have id, epic, valve.... spending so much time making highly optimized engines.
In fact, while games really on scripting, they can't be built around generic engines and be as efficient as we are used to them.
my personal opinion (and I'd be happy to be proven wrong as a pre owner), is that while this will help some things, it really wont make the pre a gaming platform. (i.e. even with current animators in webos that are supposed to make animations smooth, 2D gaming with things like the breakout clone do not have smooth rendering)
If Palm is even considering WebGL (which could be very likely), I doubt we'll see it soon. Palm will more than likely want to test it, since it's new, to make sure there aren't any issues with it and WebOS. I see this as a later update (WebOS 1.5 or even maybe 2.0) after stability has been well established. If they do integrate it into the actual interface, we could see a real rival for Apple's iPhone OS as far as fluidity is concerned.
Considering the earliest ETAs on WebGL are in early 2020, that could possibly fit that timeframe
20*20*? As in 11 years from now? {Jonathan}
lol, meant 2010
Commentary from a Google dev about WebGL:
"WebGL, being 100% dependent on JavaScript to do an application's scene graph, is going to have serious problems drawing more than a few pieces of geometry at 60hz except in very special cases or on very fast machines."
The Palm Pre is not a 'very fast machine', no matter how much I like the little bloke.
The discussion mainly revolves around Google's 3D browser plugin 'thing' in relation to WebGL:
http://groups.google.com/group/o3d-discuss/browse_thread/thread/7bfa31ef...
Yea, the impression I've gotten is Google is pissed they've invested so much time into their browser plugin only for WebGL to be announced by the people who created OpenGL, with backing from the big name companies out there.
Don't get me wrong, I love their browser plugin idea. My main though process is focused on the Pre, which wouldn't be able to benefit as easily (if at all) from that plugin
--oops, double-post--
If you take a Palm Pre up against an iPhone 3GS, you'll find that the processing power is pretty similar. If you use WebGL versus OpenGL ES that's on the iPhone, you will find that the iPhone will stomp all over it.
WebGL would fit perfectly into the Palm Pre OS, there is no denying that, but it's a far cry from an OpenGL replacement.
If I remember correctly they're both using the same processor (or same spec processor) but Palm was running their processor at 533mHz instead of the full 600 mHz to keep heat down. The other key difference is that the 3GS is supposed to have a superior GPU, how much is up for debate.
Regardless I can't wait to see WebGL, very exciting development.
I see WebGL as equivalent to Flash. Anything raising the Pre from its status quo is welcomed in my book. WebGL would require Palm to implement a form of OpenGL in the Linux environment. Which is a very convenient situation if Palm were to get offer native application development: all the goods would already be available :D
Agreed. Underlying OpenGL support is a prerequisite for WebGL - WebGL just adds a Javascript interface layer on top of it. Since WebGL seems like a natural extension of Palm's WebOS design philosophy, it certainly makes sense for them to prepare for it by implementing the lower-level OpenGL support now. Even if WebGL isn't standardized yet, Palm could make use of this OpenGL support "under the hood" in the meantime to accelerate standard WebOS functions, without exposing a public API until a standard is complete.
My biggest concern is that Palm will treat WebGL exactly like they've treated Flash. As I recall, shortly after the Pre was announced, Palm said they had actually devoted some of their own programming staff to work on getting Flash running on the Pre, *ahead* of Adobe's own development schedule. Since then, we've learned that Adobe plans to release a beta version of Flash for not only the Pre, but a number of competing smartphone platforms at the same time (next month). It seems to me that Palm took what could have been a market-leading competitive advantage, and decided to wait, like everyone else, for Flash support to come from Adobe themselves. With WebGL now on the horizon, I hope it doesn't stunt Palm's own internal drive (if any!) to implement GPU acceleration support into WebOS themselves. Palm needs to get ahead of the curve again (and stay there for awhile), if they want to survive as more than a novelty in the smartphone market. ReplayTV was innovative in *creating* the commercial DVR market, for instance, but ended up getting crushed by TiVo shortly thereafter. Here's hoping that Palm doesn't become a similar footnote (again?), as an early innovator who subsequently lost their mojo (pun intended)...
This is true...
I agree, OpenGL would be better. I actually see that coming quicker than WebGL.
Hmmm.. I'm not a developer but as far as apps and games wouldn't you want native access to hardware for games to run more smoothly, not just games but apps as well? I'm sort of losing faith in webOS, i love the look and feel of the operating system but i don't see how we're going to get any powerful applications on this thing... Maybe i'm speaking way to soon... hopefully...
I have the same feeling as you. However, all we know of WebOS running on a "beefy" handset is the pre. Palm said they have long term plans for WebOS. I would not doubt that we will see stronger handsets in the future once they get the kinks out.
No matter how you look at it, we still need a native gaming/graphics platform deployed on webOS devices.
And thsi is why the pre will be such a hit. It is built for the future. If you sit down and think about where Palm is located right now? You will see that WEBOS makes so much sense.
All we have to do is just be patient. We have millions of web designers all over the world. Millions of potential app developers opposed to thousands of native code.
Palm would be really stupid to pass this implementation. The future is the WEB. Google knows it. Microsoft know it & Palm know it.
I agree to all that mention that the web is the future. Everything is more than likely moving to web-based platforms. Take Google and all of their online apps, and event their upcoming desktop OS. People like to be more connected to all of their stuff, from anywhere, and that's where the web comes into play. webOS was a great step towards that, working with the cloud.
I'm no hardcore developer, but I do want to see deeper access to the linux core. I'm not sure Y Palm wants to hide that. They should offer OpenGL AND WebGL on webOS, give people choices, and CHOICES will make a difference, at the same time... make the OS more robust with its capabilities. That's the best method in my opinion. I read that they aren't even leveraging the GPU for rendering graphics either so... many things to work out. I have the best hopes...
And what dose this have to do with the palm pre?
"For those unfamiliar, WebKit is the opensource engine that renders all the WebOS apps and is what makes the website formatting on the Pre look so good. And while WebKit also powers many of the major web browsers out there (include the Android and iPhone browsers), the WebOS is virtually centered around it, so when news like this surfaces, we should pay some attention." (emphasis added)