With webOS 2.0, MotionApps drops Classic PalmOS Emulator in Palm's lap | webOS Nation
 
 

With webOS 2.0, MotionApps drops Classic PalmOS Emulator in Palm's lap 178

by Derek Kessler Mon, 25 Oct 2010 8:53 am EDT

Classic funeral

If you’ll recall, back when the Pre first launched, there was plenty of consternation about the possibility of not being able to run your old Palm OS apps on the new webOS platform. Hearing the pleas of the faithful, Palm enlisted long-time Palm OS developer MotionApps to build a Palm OS emulator for webOS, the aptly-titled Classic. After some sixteen months on the market, MotionApps has decided to close development of Classic and cease further sales. Actually, it’s more like they’ve been forced to shut down development, as it seems webOS 2.0 doesn’t contain the Palm OS ROM needed to make Classic possible.

Indeed, we just installed Classic on our webOS 2.0 device and though it launches, it immediately brings up an "Illegal Operation" error, "The application <> performed an illegal operation and cannot continue."

We’ll let MotionApps’ blog post on the matter do the explaining:

We are sad to announce that Palm has removed Classic’s ROM from the new webOS 2.0 device ROM which will result in Classic not working if utilized with Palm’s new webOS 2.0.

This is contrary to our agreement with Palm and was done without our approval or consent. Based on this action, MotionApps will immediately stop selling Classic. However, as a courtesy to our clients, we will continue to support existing Classic customers on webOS 1.x for the immediate future.

MotionApps is also giving the source code for Classic to Palm, since it’s of no use to MotionApps anymore they’re giving it to the folks in Sunnyvale so they can “can do what they want to do with Classic and make it available with webOS 2.0.”

Honestly, we can’t say we’re shocked by Palm removing the Palm OS ROM from webOS 2.0 (though we’re slightly miffed that they’d break an agreement with a developer). The last version of Palm OS (5.4.9, to be specific) was released more than four years ago. While there are some apps and APIs that are still not possible or available on webOS, we can’t imagine that there are many Pre and Pixi users that are reliant upon Classic.

So, while we’re saddened to see Palm OS unceremoniously axed like this, we’re also glad to see Palm cutting the strings of the distant past and moving on with a more modern platform. If you’re going to miss Classic in webOS 2.0, we’re sorry, but it looks like it’s time to move on.

We're reaching out to Palm now to see what they intend to do with the Classic code. Perhaps with the new APIs and the ability to run hybrid PDK/SDK apps, there's a chance that Classic can live on as a proper SDK app in the Catalog instead of depending on special, dedicated code in the webOS ROM.

Source: MotionApps; Thanks to ToddK in the forums, SilvrDrgn, and RafRol for the tip!

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178 Comments

at this point, Palm/HP needs to focus on device, webOS 1.4.x is great as it is, but Pre2 is a downer and might just bury the smartphone team at HP.

classic was a temporary action, its gonna end sooner or later.

I disagree...while the style may not be what you are looking for, it is the same thing Apple has done with the iPhone. Very little has changed on the iPhone until the iPhone 4. The Pre 2 actually has updated hardware, which Apple didn't do til the 4, and the style of both the Pre and iPhone look good so why change something that's not broken?

In my opinion the main reason the Pre and Pre 2 have received less than stellar reviews is due to the launches. Very little excitement, other than from Palm enthusiasts, was created. The hardware had issues, but no more than Apple has had with the iPhone. Also consider Palm's support of homebrewing versus Apples almost militant approach against jailbreaking.

I agree HPalm has issues, but it's not in the device.

we shouldn't be content with aligning our strategy with Apple's. Apple has been extremely successful in the mobile market. Palm has not. We should be looking for ways to exceed their strategy in both scale and success, we are the underdogs and will continue to be so otherwise. Lets stop using the 3G - 3GS releases as an excuse for the underwhelming Palm hardware. It worked for them. It won't work for us. Besides the iphone4 is out now.

Its not the same, as apple has huge fanbase who will buy whatever crap apple put out. Palm/HP don't have that luxury.

Further, Pre 2 will be competing with iPhone 4, Droid 2, EVO, it can not just compare with its own predecessor and be happy with it.

With leading iOS and Android products all offering front facing camera, auto focus, higher display density. Pre 2 is still doing 320x480? How do they plan to attract buyers? Unless its

@ntjoe:
That's not true. The iPhone 3GS had a faster processor, new graphics chip, more memory (256MB), a better camera, and a new audio processor.

MA is laughing all the way to the bank with our money.

I doubt it, they have just lost any future sales for their original investment.

In fact last month in our P|C forums they were asking users what improvements they would like to see, hoping that webOS 2.0 would enable them to bring in new features and bug fixes.

So your comment is actually really stupid and ignorant.

It was one of the first apps I bought on my day 1 Pre and they overcharged the crap out of us for it and it's performance sucked. So they deserved to be left behind, yet they took entirely too much money from trustworthy Palm users.

Pre 2 is not going to bury the smartphone team, stop being so melodramatic. Pre 2 is what the Palm team was working on before getting acquired and delaying the launch. HP is going to get something better out. They probably got the Pre 2 out to keep webOS in the public eye and to serve as a filler until the next big thing comes out.

I agree that Classic was tempory but I use my pre for work and the medical field. The PalmOS still has many more and better apps for the medical field then the WebOS that I use daily at work. I also use quicken, the Expense tracker, and Palm desktop. They all work great with Classic. Not allowing Classic to continue on with 2.0 is a mistake. Classic should not be discontinued until the WebOS medical and business apps mature a little and there is a better desktop OS with interface to work with the Palm.

I agree. While Palmdoc05 and SiratoXero are making some good apps (14 on my Pre so far) there is not the major text/reference development for WebOS yet, such as Skyscape, Sanford Guide, and iSilo with the various specialty guides available on PalmOS. Heck - there are probably well over 1000 PalmOS medical apps and docs out there alone. So I will miss PalmOS, even though I rarely use it now. Medical and EMT students learning our craft may miss it even more, as they depend on these more.

thanks for Classic on WebOS 1.x, Motion Apps! It has been worth every penny, and was the first app I bought.

+ 1000 The calendar w/ associated "Notes" & the ability to search these, archive on the desktop, & yes, even print them is a HUGE part of my satisfaction w/ the Pre. Homebrew to the rescue?? Please???!?

I wouldn't be surprised. Palm OS (now Garnet OS) isn't owned by Palm but by ACCESS, so to continue to use it probably means Palm still has to pay ACCESS.

I can't see Palm paying them forever.

From Wikipedia: "In December 2006, Palm gained perpetual rights to the Palm OS source code from ACCESS. With this Palm can modify the licensed operating system as needed without paying further royalties to ACCESS."

Palm can continue to support Classic at very little cost. Mmmm, I'm thinking the money spent trying to keep the iTunes sync working might have been better spent getting Classic up to speed?

You're kidding right? I hate iTunes but way, way more people would use and wat iTunes sync than Classic. The only folks who want Classic are the ones who can't/won't let go of PalmOS and let's face it, that's a dying breed.

You know, every couple of years we see an article asking the eternal question: What obligations does a software development company have to it's users (merchantability, fitness for the task at hand, etc), and this MotionApps thing is raising the issue again. If I buy an app (regardless of cost), is the software vendor required to only support it for 29 1/2 minutes? Can they just drop support for it when they get tired of all the support emails? When the next season of Chuck starts? Is it unreasonable for us Classic users to expect it to continue running at least TWO FREAKIN' YEARS after purchase? You all can blithely comment about how Palm OS is dead, but that doesn't obviate the fact that a lot of us use Classic to perform functions on the Pre/Pixi that it currently cannot do, and for which we paid a good amount of money for.

jesus. people won't shutup about how crappy they think the pre2 is and how HPalm is failing, blah blah blah. GO AWAY.

Amen.

I know, I really want one but Sprint's not offering it. I'm hoping it's because they're holding out for something better and not because they've abandoned Palm.

I'll be interested in seeing if the Pre 2 has any of the same hardware problems as the Pre. I really hope it's not a flimsy piece of crap like the Pre. I'm now on my 4th Pre and I got the first one in September last year.

The first on lasted the longest, from September 2009 to June 2010. It suffered from the stuck headset problem. Then in September 2010 the screen cracked on Pre #2 and I almost had to pay a $100 deductible. The replacement Sprint gave me had a smudgy screen. It looked like it was from fingerprints but wiping it didn't help, it was on the inside. I got it swapped at the beginning of October 2010. Pre #4 hasn't broken, yet.

Pre #3 wasn't really Palm's fault, Sprint's the one who gave me a defective refurb.

My friend who got the Pre before me has all sorts of stuff broken on his, but he can't afford to pay a $100 deductible for a replacement that is likely to fall apart in a few months. The power button is broken, there is some sort of curly spring from the slider that fall into the keyboard area and the shiny plastic bit that covers the ear piece fell off. At one point he thought it was dead so he went and bought a $20 blackberry and hated it. The only way he can power up his Pre is to plug it in to a charger.

I really hope the Pre 2 is significantly more robust than the original.

classic looked old and dated good thing they dumped it,

I don't think so...

Couple of problems I have with this article...

So PalmOS is old. Is the including of the ROM hurting webOS and it's capabilities in any way? What substantial benefit do they gain from removing it. No one but Classics users would have paid any attention to it.

And more especially, this app costs it's users $30. Obviously they wanted it enough that they paid for it. So why remove the ability for a user to use it in 2.0? I mean, it's nice that maybe the APIs are getting in there, but that doesn't mean every app in Classic will magically appear in the App Catalog. Someone's going to have to develop it (or a similar app).

I'm not a Classic user, but the reasons to drop support for the app in this article seem kind of lame to me. :/

The only benifit I could see removing it would be for space limitations. I guess it could be a license problem between PalmOS and now HPwebOS though.

See my post above re: licensing. NOT a problem...

I totally agree. Having used and still using Palm OS (got a Centro 1.5 years ago) I've been looking forward to migrating to the Pre/Pre Plus and now the Pre 2 when my renewal comes up in June. I use my phone/pda for business - not playing games. The ability to have and edit and create Word, Excel & PowerPoint files is very important to me. I have client information that I do not want to be syncing to the cloud - so it is great to be using the Palm OS contacts as well as the calendar, memos & task. Our office also uses a management system that I can simply sync to and have thousands of clients information from that database on my Palm without having to import or type them in. I have been a loyal Palm user for 13 plus years & want them to succeed. I guess I'll continue to wait to see what happens when the dust settles in the upcoming months or years. Who knows, I too just might bring out my Palm TX.

If your company uses Exchange the best solution to syncing your business contacts on webOS is to put all your contacts into Outlook since the Pre will sync all your exchange contacts.

Totally agree!
I hardly use classic because it doesn't work that great without a stylus. Some apps are just not available for WebOS yet, so it is great to have it as a backup solution.
I also paid the $30 and feel pretty ripped off now. Can't imagine it uses that much resources in the OS.

I have so many Palm OS apps it was crazy. I demoed the Classic app, and it just didn't work well enough to be worth the $30.00. Those Palm OS apps weren't designed with a capacitive touchscreen in mind, and a lot of them depended on (or I got used to them) using hardware navigation. A lot of the applications that I really depended on Palm OS were not able to work fully within Classic anyway, such as the apps that worked with IR and that synched with the computer.

If I had to guess, I would bet that trimming off the Palm OS rom had something to do with the performance of WebOS 2.0 as well as the licensing fees. But seriously, every single Palm Pre and Palm Pixi had a PalmOS ROM inside of it? How much were they spending on the licensing fees, or did they get to use the PalmOS ROM for free as part of the sale with ACCESS? I can't remember if we heard what the terms of that sale were. I've slept since then.

This is bull crap, one of the deciding factors in migrating my 6+ year old Palm OS Profile to webOs was to keep my Palm OS apps. I paid $30 for this crap and now they're dropping it.

SOOO Lame.

I bought my Pre last year because 1) Flash was coming out "very soon", and 2) Palm OS Classic Emulation

Well we all know they lied about Flash for almost a year now, so now my other reason I bought the Pre is evaporating.

I love webOs, but Android is looking good to me now after HPalm rapes me repeatedly


I am so raged

Your PalmOS apps won't work on Android either so what's the point. It's like switching to a Mac because your Windows 3.1 applications don't run on Windows 7.

+1 Jdmulloy

Could not have said it better.

Comment of the day.

Partly right, but he might find dramatically BETTER replacement apps in the bigger Android catalogue - if Palm (or someone else) never fix the Calendar and Task app up to the old excellent Palm OS class and nobody create a pure TEXT application like the splendid alternatives you could find for old Palm OS

The Tasks app in webOS is actually a bad joke with 6 big limitations compared with the "old" one, the calender have several big limitations and a smart pure TEXT app is nonexistent... And I will also be very reluctant to invest in webOS if this vital handicaps not are fixed... I will at least wait until my Treo 680 break down and not is possible to repair, if they not wake up and fix the most important apps!!

Calendar is perfect with the uber patch.

As for text editors, Pretext is promising. Internalz also has a built in text editor.

http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/pretext

And task/memo managers.

http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/classicnote
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/noted
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/cloud-tasks
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/todo-classic

And there are more, those are just the few I could think of off hand.

Once WebOS 2.0 gets going full steam I'm sure you can expect many more apps to fill the place of all your old PalmOS apps (and more.)

Thanks and I have to check these out... Then would it be VERY nice if you could message or mail me any more tips that might fix the 15 big webOS limitations I list a bit down here - www.vantechmag.com/bestbuy/dicam.html#gsm - and HP palm should actually fix the basic PIM functionality, that should be included in the system and not be "hard to find" external solutions!

You really made me hopeful, for a very short moment... But the apps you mention simply don't include the vital advantages with the "old" apps!

- In the old task app could every task have an optional note icon, to easy get to a big extra page of info... Okay that page was max 4000 letters big and should be up to 200.000 letters... You could sort them in up to 15 categories and finally sort each task in 5 priority grades AND show the grade... The font was not silly big, so you could see at least 11 tasks without scrolling... And you was also able to back up your important tasks / projects to your home computer, which is a must... But you could not hide the useless check box, that now grown even bigger!

- The old calendar app in the first Palm Treo had an EXCELLENT function that could move stuff you wanted to do today, but didn't had time to, over to next day (simply making that event show every "current" day, from the date you post the event) plus no silly empty time holder (that only steal space and could be an option) and a smart "mini calendar" with both weekdays and dates as date picker...

- A text editor must at least have a smart search and replace tool, be able to open from your home computer, have a slim proportional scroll bar and basic file managing functionality that handle at least 200 huge text documents of minimum 100.000 letters each, sorted in 12 folders!!

I can't speak for Kujila, but in my case the three most critical apps I depend on in Classic are already available as native Android applications. So HP is offering me a choice:

Stay with WebOS 2, lose access to my data, hope that a native app comes along someday.

Move to Android, keep on using the apps I depend on.

I much prefer WebOS, but I don't use my Pre for its operating system - I use it for the applications I need.

Classic is performing a critical role here while we wait for greater marketshare to bring the developers around.

It looks like once again I will be left without a decent remote desktop application. How about making available apps that replace what classic could do before dumping classic?

I would like Palm to refund the money I spent on Classic and Palm OS apps. Maybe a class action law suit is in order.

Are you serious? A class action law suit? No lawyer in the country is going to approach a judge saying "software company A must support this software, forever".... That is total nonsense.

I demand Sega Refund ALL the money I spent on the Dream-cast system. They no longer make NEW GAMES and they wont play on my XboX!!!!!!

Every lawyer in the country is looking for people to shake down. And then they'll take the money they earned from the judgement and attorney fees and hand it over to some politician who's running on a platform to limit frivolous lawsuits. Because that's just how we roll these days in The United States of Irony.

Be that as it may, all the bellyaching raises a legitimate point. Classic was one of my first app purchases when I got my Pre. And it served me well. Now I've been able to find replacements for all of my PalmOS apps but there are one or two which are still far better than their webOS equivalents. So for me the question is, is the improved hardware and software of the Pre2 and webOS 2.0 worth the agravation of putting up with inferior apps and waiting for them to improve? If the answer is no, Palm and HP have lost a sale.

I thought about getting MA Classic, now I'm glad I didn't. Looks like I'll keep my TX handy for a while longer.

*agreed*

I do rely on DateBk6 to manage contacts for my work. It's all I use Classic for. Losing this wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the fact that webOS's calendar app STILL SUCKS SO FREAKING BAD.

When I got my Pre, I was more than a little surprised at how weak the Calendar app is. With Palm's long history of organization tools, I expected they'd at least reach the same functionality as the PalmOS built-in calendar. I really tried to get used to the WebOS calendar for a few weeks, but just couldn't do it. Classic and DateBk 6 on the Pre+, and Pimlical on the desktop is much more versatile and powerful than the WebOS app. The only shortcoming is the capacitive touchscreen accuracy isn't up to the older resistive screens, so it's a bit hard to navigate on the Pre.

Agree to 999% the basic PIM (personal information management) applications in webOS are elegant, but close to worthless and actually worse than most of the competition... And that from an outstanding position, when they was clearly better than anyone else in the "old" Palm OS so this is tragic, but the Classic was anyhow a great temporary solution - until Palm (or someone else) hopefully wake up and fix the PIM apps!

I never used palm os the pre was my 1st phone from palm...but can they just get rid of classic like that? And it also has some bad reviews and only has 3 stars could that have played a part?

For me, this will prevent moving to 2.0. I depend on Classic for DateBk, HandBase, and eWallet. None of these are available as native apps, or are likely to be soon. I'm really hoping HP will continue Classic in some form!

Can you prevent your Pre from automagically updating to 2.0 when your carrier pushes this out?

As the saying goes, "there's a patch for that"...

The issue will be someday when you need help with your device and you call Palm, or your carrier, and they say, "what is your OS version?" Their next words will be "download webOS doctor and update your phone to 2.x" or "click on updates and update to 2.x".

So you either will have to lose MA Classic at that point, or live with whatever problem you have without Palm or carrier support. It's an unfortunate ending.

Personally, I'm disappointed. For me, Classic serves one purpose -- a vehicle to Pocket Quicken. Unlike some who criticize classic, I don't consider myself stuck in the past. I'm not using any other PalmOS functionality - just Quicken.

Both my wife and I (through our $60 collective investment in Classic) use it 3 times a day for tracking our daily spending -as much or more than most other WebOS core apps (except for email and calendar). Don't get me wrong, if there were a good WebOS App option for mobile tracking of what comes out of my wallet, I'd be all over it. I know Checkbook exists, but I need something that can sync to a full screen too for analysis and entry of non-mobile transactions. For now, Mint (Quicken) hasn't stepped up to provide a good option with offline access and syncing to a full screen... Ideally, I'd love to have something that was well-integrated into the Quicken infrastructure too.

Yes, I forgot about Quicken (there are so many Palm OS apps that I use all the time). Pocket Quicken is great and a real benefit to be synching with your main computer!

I second the comments here. I only use Classic (now) for PocketQuicken. I did use it for TealAuto and Trip but now that TealAuto is on WebOS, I only need Classic for PQ. Since no alternative, gonna really suck when my Pre Plus is forced to upgrade. :(

I have to agree - Classic and Pocket Quicken were the must-have programs that kept me in the Palm family when I went to upgrade my Treo last spring, even though I had serious doubts about Palm's long term survivability. I use PQ daily for keeping track of business travel expenses, and there isn't anything that duplicates the utility in any OS. Unfortunately Intuit is trying to migrate users to Mint and consequently canceled Landware's development license, so Pocket Quicken has reached the end of the road even though Landware wanted to keep supporting it and develop it for other platforms.

So for now I'll need to find a way to block the WebOS 2 update and I'll continue to enjoy PocketQuicken, as well as DateBk 6 which still blows away the weak WebOS calendar.

Class action lawsuit? Sign me up! I don't recall being notified that my Classic app would stop working after a year. I'm pissed...

Class action lawsuit? Grow the hell up you whiners. If you want to use PalmOS so badly I've got a Centro I'll sell you cheap.

Having dedicated code for a single app that a very small percentage of users utilize is simply bad programming and likely causes more problems and hassles than it's worth. I'm sure MotionApps could have made a hybrid sdk version of the emulator but that would have required recoding the whole thing which, since everyone who would have been likely to buy the software already had bought it, would make them zero money.

PalmOS is dead, it's been dead for years. Get over it.

Hey, buttwipe. It's not about old versus new. It's about breach of contract. We spent $30 on this product, and it will soon be made unusable by Palm's decision. I'm not sure what legal requirements Palm (and MotionApps) must adhere to in regard to merchantability, but I'm pretty sure they don't have the right to cut us off at the knees some 18 months after the sale. Just because you don't like Palm OS or Classic doesn't give you the right to disrespect those of us who still rely on it to fulfill our needs until Palm gets their PIM functionality up to speed. So STFU...

P.S. For the record, I don't actually use Classic that often, but when I NEED TO, I expect it to work. That's why I spent the money. I use it to run Metro, and to access iSecure (my old password tracker on Palm OS) when I don't have ready access to my Palm Centro. By the way, Michelin called and said they no longer support your model of tire on your car, so when you go to the gas station to get your next fill up, they'll remove the tires from your car. You won't miss them, though, 'cause you can ride on your rims...

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When Palm agreed to provide a ROM image to support said 3rd party app, they became an interested (read: obligated) party. They have liability here. (But again, I'm not a lawyer)

edit: I also want to add that Classic (the "third party app") only became problematic because of an action by Palm, so Palm is to blame for this, not MotionApps.

Wow, that Michelin analogy might be the worst analogy I've ever seen.

Sorry 'buttwipe' but Palm has no obligation to support Classic. They have no obligation to support any of the apps, that's the devs responsibility.

Typical asshole American, you don't like something, so you want to sue.

The next time your insurance company refuses to pay for your cancer treatments (or whatever ailment your policy clearly covers), try getting them to pay by using "pretty please" rather than by suing. Good luck with that, Mr. Buttwipe... :)

as a Canadian/Norwegian living in the US - the insurance system here SUCKS! I'd much rather have my Canadian health and auto insurance that's run by the government. Privatization has led to ridiculous situations like you found yourself in - and you have to make sure the hospital/doctor you visit is "in your network" ??? WTF? is this AT&T and VZ?

Stupidest privatization of an industry I've ever seen or heard. It's all due to the "experimental" HMO's that failed in their first year of trials - but the Ins companies sniffed out how much profit they could make and bought out Washington. There's capitalism at work for ya huh?

but Rush Limbdumb, etc, and the Republidumb party say all "you" foreigners hate your nationalized healthcare! (Maybe they forgot to ask actual Europeans and Canadians?)

Try to be a doctor working in USA "your money or your life" medical system.

Currently, until Epocrates comes out with their full product on WebOS, I have to keep Classic running all day, so I can see what meds are covered by a patient's insurance, or are on the Walmart $4 list. So I will miss it quite a bit, and wish that Palm could have extended it's life. Probably too late for that now, though, as it sounds like WebOS2 is out to the carriers already.

Buttwipe, your insurance comparison is moronic.

Your HDDVD is calling, it feels "cheated"

THAT is a bad analogy. If I owned an HD DVD player, at least I could still play HD DVDs even if Hollywood stopped putting our movies in that format. By mandatorily forcing 2.0 on WebOS users (a policy I don't disagree with, by the way), Palm is forcefully removing functionality we already have. It would be like a Hollywood DMCA cop coming by your house and taking your HD DVD player from you.

I've said all I'm going to say about this. I was only mildly irritated about all this at the beginning, but the more I think about it, the angrier I'm getting. Palm, the ball is in your court now...

Riiight, just like all of those Apple PowerPc users that sued when Snow leopard left them in the dust right?

As for your health insurance analogy - WTH? I know health insurance is messed up more than anything else in the entire US, but it's not at all relevant to this "Boo-hoo I cant upgrade so i will now sue" BS

I'm sure a bunch of research institutions are suing their hardware manufacturers for not putting out vista/win7 drivers for all of the rs232 port-connected machines right? umm no

It's called an OS UPGRADE - which Palm is nice enough to offer for free (unlike your favorite fruit)

Ummm, so if, for example, Palm decides to make a change to WebOS that makes 50 percent of all your WebOS apps stop working (because it's an important change and it's "for the good of the community", you'll be ok with that? You don't mind losing the money you spent on them?

Whatever happened to common sense? If I pay for something, I expect it to work for a reasonable amount of time. 1 year and change is NOT a reasonable amount of time.

Just because maintaining support for Classic has become unpleasant for Palm doesn't mean they can just drop it on a whim. I'm a Libertarian, but even I agree we need government agencies (and the judicial system) to limit abuse by corporations. If we just shrug our shoulders every time a company decides to stick it to us, where exactly will that lead us? I have a reasonable expectation that an app I buy will continue to run for a period of time. Do I need to file a lawsuit to force Palm to agree that 24 months (at least) is "reasonable"?

The problem is that it's a 4 year old OS. I know the app is only ~15 months old etc - but it was more meant as a transitional utility than a long-term fixture. The problem is that with POS marketing - the webOS apps to replace your PalmOS apps have not come quickly enough to fill the gaps. Rest assured that the gaps can and will be filled, but do understand my point about the 4 year time period vs your 1 year example

Unless those gaps are going to be filled by the time HP webOS 2.0 is released then there's no point, really. Users will have to fill the gaps by jumping the platform ship. I mean, if you need a Palm OS app bad enough that you bought Classic to run it then you aren't going to sit around and wait for a webOS version to show up once you get cut off.

Ding, ding, ding! Go to the head of the class. Palm is doing a disservice to their users by this action. As much as I dislike Microsoft (BeOS, anyone?), at least they had the good graces to support older versions of Windows (even REALLY old versions). They know what side their bread is buttered on. Now that Palm has HP's backing, they have the money to support Classic for at least another year. That should be enough time to get us the apps we need.

Perfectly right!!

Thank you for giving me a good laugh. I'm gonna go sue Bioware because Mass Effect isn't as fun as it was when I bought it.

I may sound a little harsh but why would you want to run old PalmOS apps on a new WebOS platform? That's like running Commadore 64 programs on a Windows xp computer.. Nostalgia is awesome but not productive alot of times.

But some have crucial apps that have no counterpart in webOS. I'm sure if someone would offer apps that meet the needs of these users they would move.

Speaking of the Commodore 64, any chances of getting Zork on webOS? :-)

As I wrote above... The basic PIM (personal information management) applications in webOS are elegant, but close to worthless and actually worse than most of the competition... And that from an outstanding position, when they was clearly better than anyone else in the "old" Palm OS so this is tragic, but the Classic was anyhow a great temporary solution - until Palm (or someone else) hopefully wake up and fix the PIM apps!

To be more exact - the Tasks app in webOS is actually a bad joke with 6 big limitations compared with the "old" one, the calender have several big limitations and a smart pure TEXT app is nonexistent... So I will be very reluctant to invest in webOS if this vital handicaps not are fixed... And at least wait until my Treo 680 break down and not is possible to repair, if they not wake up and fix the most important apps!!

Epocrates Essentials for doctors is one "why".

The PalmOS version has insurance medicine coverage info not available in a WebOS app yet. The web version isn't accessible in rural clinics with Sprint coverage...

Hopefully the full Epocrates version will be done for WOS 2 soon! (not just the beta that has been out almost a year)

Don't webOS updates get pushed out automatically? That means that Classic is actually going to shut down for most people as soon as webOS 2.0 is released to the public.

There's a patch for that :)

Good thing I spent for PocketMirror instead of getting and relying on Classic.

All we need now are webOS versions of SplashMoney and SplashID (one that syncs!)..

I made the mistake of paying my $30.00 for classic not long after I got my Pre Plus and soon discovered that there was nothing in the old PalmOS that I could not live without. Much to my displeasure, Since Classic served no viable purpose on my phone, I took the loss and deleted it from my phone. I feel much better now that Palm has apparently moved on as well.

Some people have a problem embracing new or emerging technology and letting go of out of date practices. I think it is time to look forward and let Classic die a slow death on an ancient Operating System.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

I did the same. I bought Classic and deleted it after a month. 1. There wasn't much I'd use on classic that the pre didn't do. 2. The few things Classic did better weren't worth the startup time on classic every time I wanted to use them (I don't like leaving cards open). 3. Classic simply didn't run very well.

Good riddance to old rubbish.

I wonder if the reason was the limitation of size on the system partition?

Instead of wailing on Hp and Palm, how about wailing on the developers of these apps that you need to update them to be native WebOS apps? Its like buying a 30 year old car that runs on leaded fuel, and expecting the fuel companies to keep producing that fuel ;)

Duke Nukem Forever! We'll just suspend our lives until said apps show up. No problem... :)

I bought Classic when I first got my Pre+. I have not used it in months. I will not miss it.

There are still a few good reasons for having a PalmOS emulator. Bike or Die 2, LJP are a couple. I've often wished for Blazer's reformatting capability to avoid left right scrolling on some websites.
Hoping HP/Palm releases the source code to the community (and any OS rights if they have the ability to pass that along).
Licensing shouldn't be a big problem though, I'd prefer to just run the emulator with a rom dump from one of my old Centros or Treos. I imagine there are still lot of folks still have an old PalmOS device lying around and would like to use it for a specific app, but don't want to carry a second device.

I wouldn't be surprised if HP's already working hard to bring the apps in the Palm OS emulator to webOs. In the next few months we'll see the palm apps in the market. Wishful thinking, I know. But why get all stoopid and mad when you can't see the whole picture?

Because people are stupid and like having something to get mad about. Heck, I like getting mad about people's stupidity.

I still use Classic on my Pre.
- I use Metro, as it's the only offline London Tube journey planner for the Pre.
- I use HotSync, as it enables me to maintain my Contacts c/w Categories between to PC's with Outlook, as well as Tasks and Memos which then work with Pocketmirror on my Pre.
I would have thought that a PalmPad would have been an ideal platform for Classic under webOS ?
I've already sent Twitter messages to @Palm about this.

I bought Classic to run UltrSoft Money to sync with Microsoft Money 2007. Now Microsoft has discontinued Money and now I won't be able to run UltraSoft Money in Classic. Great.
Quicken's mobile version isn't even close to UltraSoft Money.
Not what the LifeDrive am I supposed to do?

Anyone know of a good desktop money program that syncs with Palm Pre Plus that has all the features of UltraSoft Money?

OR, OR here ya go Homebrew folks, someone figure out how to keep Classic running when 2.0 comes out. Come on, you got Doom to work on this thing!

Thanks!
Ezrabrooks51
Ezrabrooks is my fav bourbon.
$51 was the fine for underage drinking.

ya I'm tired of seeing all these negative comments on how crappy the new hardware is, like really?? I'm on sprint and my pre is due for upgrade like it's falling apart but I couldn't go with android or any other os. This ones way too good. Plus my buddy who has a droid on att STRONGLY recommended AGAINST getting an android phone. So I'm gonna wait for another webos phone.

I had a Centro before the pre and when I switched to webOS, I did try out the classic emulator because I was so used to Palm OS and there were certain things on it that I was worried of losing. But after using webOS for a while, personally, I felt that the emulator was kind of unnecessary. I wasn't missing much from Palm OS. I still have my Centro and power it on for fun sometimes and actually still use MiniTones to make ringtones. Also, before all the game emulators for webOS (nes, snes, etc.), I was worried of losing LJP.

palmOS had apps?

PalmOS has thousands of Apps, and several online App Stores long before Apple entered the Smartphone world.

Here is one of the most popular:
http://www.pocketgear.com/en/usd/plattform:palm/index.htm

I liked it best when it was Palmgear.com!

(several of my medical docs were on there).

This sucks! I am still using 2 classic apps and one of them is not replaceable by any webOS app!

I'm actually heavily reliant on Classic :(((((
I've been using Palm since '95 and have a lot of information in my Palm desktop that I use on my Pre and computer every few hours. Not a happy camper here.

Regarding licensing of GarnetOS, the perpetual license is between Palm & Access. Does the license is transferable to HP as the new owner of Palm? The situation is a little different with Elevation Partner as a major shareholder of Palm. Palm is no longer a publicly listed company, a standalone company.

Not a lawyer, but I doubt a company loses it's rights (or its obligations) when it's acquired by another company. For example, larger companies have to swallow the debt of a company it's acquiring - I see this in the news all the time. As to their status, they didn't become a private company - they were a publicly traded company acquired by a larger publicly traded company.

Great. I paid for Classic because I still use some PalmOS programs that have no webOS versions yet. Oh well.

This NOT GOOD! I use Documents To Go everyday so the I can edit stuff while I'm away from the office. I run Documents To Go in Classic with no problems. DataViz never got around to writing the upgrade to the Document Viewer supplied with the Pre, then they were acquired by RIM/Blackberry. Yes, I know that QuickOffice will take it's place, but they have already said that the initial deliverable will be a VIEWER, with no editing capability.

So, I'll have to delay getting the new Pre2 until I get an editor for Word, Excel, & PowerPoint.

You will need to block the webOS 2.0 update to your Pre as well :-(

Three words, Play Station Three. They finally gave up on support of PS1 games. Windows stopped support for '95 after a long run. It is just a natural progression of technology. Now it's time for the developers to take the torch and run with these kind of apps that some people still use.

Something's not right with your analogy...

PS3 actually still supports PSX games, it's PS2 that's not supported. And the reason behind that is they ported most of the games to the PlayStation store. It's for them to make a quick buck to get you to re-buy your own games, but at least it's there.

And the timespan is spread out more than a year, PS3 dropped that support like after two revisions of hardware, unlike Classic which is barely more than a year.

This is to be expected. HP has no knowledge of or interest in Palm's past history. They are interested solely in what WebOS can bring to the table and Palm OS ain't it.

That sucks.

One of the main reasons I switched from a Treo to the Pre was that I could continue to use my PalmOS apps and many years of data in those apps. Palm/HP has never come up with anything like the number of serious apps created for PalmOS -- the Palm app catalog is 90% junk -- fart apps, worthless books sold as apps, etc.

If I'm not going to be able to use my PalmOS apps anyway, I don't see any reason why I would stick with Pre and its very limited number of apps over an iPhone or an Android phone. On top of Sprint users apparently not being able to get new devices from HP, this tells me that it's time to come up with a plan to move away from the Sprint and the Pre.

WebOS at the moment can not replace the functionality of some admittedly dated PalmOS programs. At some point it is inevitable, but right now is too soon. Also, in my opinion Palm's user base is too small to cast aside useful functionality which will make loyal, long term users such as myself look elsewhere. Sadly with this development Android now has better support for features I need, and I may be forced to use it even though I don't really want to. I can only hope that a solution is in the works, though MotionApps response leads me to believe that is not the case.

Epocrates Essentials on my Pre starts up Classic (or vis versa) every night and updates it's database and medical warnings and medicine recalls from the same server that their iPhone and WM and Android versions do. Not too dated!

their WOS version is beta so far, and does not Auto Update yet, so IS "dated", lol!

I don't use Classic. But Derek, that photoshop is very classic. Love it.

I'm sad to see Classic go, but I believe it is a necessary step as HP/Palm looks towards the future with webOS instead of a grossly outdated, emulator. Also, for those who are crying "class action lawsuit" - I have to ask why and on what grounds? You didn't honestly expect Palm and MotionApps to maintain Classic indefinitely did you? You might have a case if they kept selling Classic after knowing that PalmOS wouldn't work but that's the closest I think you would get! Not to show off how much of a geek I am but I think the Matrix movies say it best here: "Everything that has a beginning has an end"

The main problem is that some basic PIM functionality barely work in webOS and now does the take away the only way to temporarely fix that (until Palm hopefully fix the lousy PIMs) and they remove the only alternative after just a year, which is a very short time!!!

I tried the trial of classic and walked away from 8+ years of palm os software because I thought it was unusable.

I am very very upset as I use classic DateBk6 and SplashID all the time. Talking about old technology, why is it then that the old classic apps are lightyears ahead of the apps availible in WebOS. The callender in WebOS is crap, no overwiev, no icons just wortless. No sync to computer for Splash, no editing of XL, word, docs. WHY HP PALM ist this after 16 Months still the case?????? I love how the new Palm works but I am still (until we see some real apps not only games) depending on Classic. What to do? I don't want to but I have to change camp if they kill Classic without a solution.

it got dropped because it is not worth devoting any resources to something with so few users. If angry birds sold 30k installs at $2, there is probably less than 2000 users of the $30 classic. If a person has to have palm os apps, it's best to do it on a palm os device.

why should HP/Palm care about an agreement with a developer... its not like APPLE got as big as they are in the smartphone market by having a BUNCH of apps

Sorry to bring up the '' class action lawsuit '' comment, but I find it a little off putting that anyone would speak of such measures over an app! As a newbie to this forum ( and to PALM ) , I appreciate the vibe put out by the contributors, developers..AND BY YOU GUYS, the fellow Palm owners, and although it may suck, I think the unhappy CLASSIC users should put everything into perspective....just my humble opinion..

The right "perspective" is that a smartphone is completely useless for many creative people, without great PIM apps and Palm have comletely forgot to fix that part of webOS even if they was totally superiour in that arena before!!

Many people don't just use smartphones to play games or look cool...

Welp, time to say bye bye fo good for Audible :( PalmOS version at least worked through classic :(

It's time for Palm to step up and provide Audible support. My understanding is that the audio players will not play any protected content. If PalmOS could do it, there must be a way to implement it on WebOS. I don't know where else I could get my daily NYT audio digest than Audible, not to mention the books.It stinks if our only choices are (1) carry another device, (2) burn content to CDs and then rip it back (look out for those 22 hour books...), or (3) use a different audio provider.

It's time for Palm to step up and provide Audible support. My understanding is that the audio players will not play any protected content. If PalmOS could do it, there must be a way to implement it on WebOS. I don't know where else I could get my daily NYT audio digest than Audible, not to mention the books.It stinks if our only choices are (1) carry another device, (2) burn content to CDs and then rip it back (look out for those 22 hour books...), (3) use a different audio provider, or (4) jump ship. Maybe time to start thinking about #4.

Can anyone tell me why my 'Fileman For Ms-Dos' won't run on my Windows machine?

It's not really that I have old Palm OS apps... I mainly use Classic for one thingk iSilo. They don't have a freaking WebOS app or anything after all this time which is irritating as anything.

I have no data to base this on, but I am HOPING that iSilo has a version that was just waiting for WebOS2 before they finished it. That is because they have said they will make a WebOS version of iSilo.

PS - maybe they should sue Apple for the right to the "i" prefix, as they used it first... but I'd rather they came out with a killer WebOS version that will read my old Palm iSilo files instead!

I am sure most users do not care about Classic, but for those wanting genealogy software on their Pre, it was essential. Maybe now someone will actually develop a modern family tree type program for us.

Well how about healthcare workers such as myself who need classic to run Skyscape Medical software on webOS? I just payed over $150.00 back in August for a new subscription of Skyscape. I guess our best hope is that Skyscape releases a native app for webOS and grandfather us in.

we need to seriously start bugging Skyscape to update their apps for WebOS - especially as Epocrates is not using 5MCC the way they used to!

*

Does this mean that there may be a change in the family of processors that future HP/Palm devices may use. This speculation is based on the premise that it would not make much sense for HP/Palm to spend the resources to recompile and test the old Palm OS to run on a new different line of processors. Just a thought, because I could not think of any other good reason to drop the Palm OS code. They are not running out of memory and there are no license issues. So why else get a group of the most loyal and long time customers upset?

Irregardless, HP/Palm is creating a bad situation. I, like many others, am limping along with a original Sprint Pre that has its issues facing no upgrade path (although I am eligible for an upgrade) or spending $100 on a nasty refurb. Now I face the impending loss of years of data on some of my classic apps. Fortunately for me, there are some replacements WebOS apps, that while lacking the richness of my Palm OS apps, will serve most of my needs. But the data is lost. I could reenter the most relevant data but then I could reenter the same data into an Android app. Although I love the technical excellence of WebOS, I have long used a smart phone (since my Treo 180) for productivity purposes from a business prospective. So with Sprint/HP/Palm not providing a clear path at this time, would the best and most productive move be to switch to the evil side and cut my loses short?

You know, I've gotten used to the HP/Palm/Pre2 disappointment/hate posts. I've even learned to tune out the nerdy, childish "first" posts.

I'm just really hoping that the HORRIBLE analogies come to an end. If you're going to make one (or several, for that matter), think 'em through first please.

That is all.

I am sorry I offended you with an "evil" analogy. But apparently you misread my post as a disappointment/hate post. So I will speak in clear, concise and boring terms.

Currently my Pre does not ring/vibrate (only a notification) on at least one call in every 15 to 20. It is not Palms fault, as the phone fell and hit the pavement at 20 mph. Subsequently, I have the cost of lost calls or spending the cost of $100 to get a refurbished unit that based on feedback from users on this website are very problematic. I talked to Sprint directly and their response was if I was not satisfied with a refurbished Pre, I could use my upgrade to get another new Pre. I asked if I was going to use my upgrade in this fashion does Sprint plan to offer a newer WebOS phone at some point in the future? The response was that the only WebOS devices they offer is the Palm Pre and Pixi however would I be interested in an Android smart phone? However there is a time and cost associated with learning a new phone. I already spent time learning the Pre and previously Palm OS. So there is a cost, in the form of time and also apps to switch to an Android phone.

Now it is announced that Classic is going away. At the minimum, it will cost me the price of new apps and at least 8 to 14 hours to reenter the my data into the new apps. In my mind a costly waste of my time.

Business decisions are made on costs and benefits. So my previous post was to provoke discussion on this basic cost and benefit issues that Sprint/HP/Palm are forcing on their customers. Because from my current prospective, to remain a Sprint/HP/Palm customer all I see are costs with an unclear and uncertain future with only marginal benefits over the competition. If I was in Sprint/HP/Palm's position, I would not want my customers to be in this position because basic business theory is that when the costs of staying exceed the cost of change, a change will be made and once a customer is lost, they are not usually recovered.

I sincerely invite and will take in viewpoints because before I make decisions I try to gather in all the available information while trying to remain objective. That was the purpose of the question that I ended my previous post with.

analogous hyperbole makes the thread more fun to read!

And, HP is ticking off customers who don't like throwing away $30 for an app that will only work for a few months. So if customers are ticked, they should let HP know. Who knows, maybe HP will give them one of their rebates, or App Store credit.

At least HP is no longer advertising Classic compatibility on their websites for the Pre, I notice.

And, using 'irregardless' will automatically void any statement(s) you make following its usage. For more information on this topic, see "conversate" and "enclosed please find"...

I never used Classic so don't have a dog in this fight, but I just have to say I love the pic accompanying this piece! Nice piece of 'shopping there.

Also, why is everyone directing their gripes with HP/Palm? Doesn't it make more sense to send requests to the developers of said PalmOS applications to get onboard with webOS?

Seriously, some devs (i.e. iSilo) have already said they're not developing a version for webOS. How is that Palm's problem?

Bottom line is this, make sure you blame, complain, cry, moan, etc. to the right individuals/companies.

I can live w/o classic, but I am extremely unhappy. Hope that they find a way that I can keep it at least while I'm stuck with a pre minus which may be a while since I just used my upgrade on a replacement.

This is going to be a serious problem for me. One of the reasons I went with the Pre was Classic. I have a lesson planning program that I use every day on my Pre with Classic. I don't have an alternative to replace it when 2.0 comes out.

So the only reason you bought a WebOS device was because for $30 extra it could emulate PalmOS?

Reasons for getting my Pre in Sep 2009:

newer better OS and gliztzier tech

AND

Classic runs the full version of Epocrates

AND

enlargeable text for aging eyes, even when using Classic

*** wish I hadn't lost my Centro while waiting for Epocrates to come out with WebOS full version!

Hope they decide to keep supporting Classic and don't drop it, or I'll be forced to drop the phone and go to another platform! I use several programs in Classic and without it, this phone use useless to me!

This was inevitable. PalmOS is ancient yet developers continue to cling to it rather than moving forward. Instead of whining about losing your stone tablets, start writing to developers like DDH and Iambic to push them into the fold. It worked with Quick Office. They are now on the webOS bandwagon. It can work with others as well.

Point well taken. However, HP/Palm should have announced this awhile ago when 2.0 was first announced so as customers could request that the developers have the WebOS apps available when Classic disappears. I would gladly pay the cost of a new app and the cost of data conversion versus the alternatives.

I only upgraded from my Treo to the Pre Plus because I was able to run a Palm OS App that I need for work. The app is not offered for WebOS & I

Wow, I just had an epiphany. HP/Palm should not only NOT drop support for Palm OS, they should embrace it. They now have it within their means to be able to make a pledge to support ALL (non-hacked) Palm OS apps (minus the ones that have specific hardware requirements), and to do it as a point of pride. Imagine this tag-line: "We love the users who made us the company we are, and we won't abandon you now".

Classic is probably already capable of running 95% of all compliant Palm OS apps. How much more money would it take to push it to the top? Imagine if they could say "We know you love your old apps, so we're letting you bring them along". Imagine all the people who left to go to Android because they had problems with Classic, if they saw that HP committed themselves to making good on the promise that Palm made regarding Classic?

They have the source code, they have the Classic emulator, they have the expertise, and now they have the money.

This is what Palm should have done to begin with. And you don't have to worry about Palm OS sales cutting into WebOS sales - even the most diehard Palm OS fanatic would agree that an equivalent WebOS app is easier and more pleasing to the eye than the Palm OS app.

Call me crazy, but if I had billions in the bank (and I wanted to regain the love and trust of the Palm faithful who left in disgust), THAT is what I would do.

Don't hold your breath. A company that has a product with zero percent mindshare isn't going to focus any of their efforts on existing customers. If anything, it will try a reboot - cutting all ties to its failed former brand. That's why the Palm brand name will probably go away for good. I'm not sure that HP even wants to be associated with Palm OS. The last thing they would want would be any images of their new hardware displaying the dowdy Palm OS user interface circa 1995-2005.

Well, you may be right about HP/Palm wanting to distance themselves from this legacy, but WHY? Palm had LEGIONS of fans who loved their Palm OS phones and all the apps that ran on it. HP is looking at this the wrong way. Americans love an underdog, and they love companies that are loyal to them. If HP decided to spend whatever money was required to regain the trust and admiration of those fans (and make it known), then you might see a ton of people come back who otherwise might not have. Apple has shown disdain for their customers (Flash, anyone?), and Google has, at least in regard to the app catalog, abandoned their customers. HP can show that they're different.

Imagine if HP put in hooks to allow you to copy/paste between Palm OS and WebOS. That probably wouldn't be too hard.

They could hire 2 system engineers ($250,000/yr) to get Classic up to speed, and they would reap many times that in the long run by the goodwill they would be showing.

You are a good man BobAtPitt and that would be a perfect solution - if Palm also begin fixing the PIM apps!!!

I wanted to use Classic, indeed the existence of it was part of my decision to jump from my 700p to the Pre+. However there were just too many issues stopping me from even trying it:

1) Trial period too short - you couldn't download it on a whim and fiddle with it, then have any time to seriously test your needed apps and try to work around any problems before being forced to buy it.

2) Couldn't buy it from the App Catalog - you had to pay some outside company by some outside method. The app didn't follow your palm profile to a new phone; I read about people being forced to buy Classic again becuase they got a new Pre.

3) Too expensive - the $30 price tag meant only the desparate would get it. It should have been $10, maybe $15.

4) Poor compatibility - everything I read about Classic said lots of apps didn't work right. The vendor of the one PalmOS app I really wanted to run said they had no idea whether it would worked with Classic.

No one of those factors is a deal killer by itself, but all 4 together paint an ugly picture.

Who really wants to take a chance on an expensive app with a poor compatibility record, a very short trial period and an unconventional purchase process that ties the app to a single piece of hardware?

by the way, the one PalmOS app I wished to run on Classic was Tom Thumb Software's Time to Time for Quickbooks - it's an excellent time tracking and billing app that interfaces billable time directly to Quickbooks Accounting. All the native WebOS time tracking apps suck in one way or another, and none interface to Quickbooks. I get by with TimeTracker Full but I'm never happy about it.

Really, this comes down to three things:

1. There are a large number of apps or, more specifically, application types, that exist on PalmOS that are either inadaquately represented on WebOS or simply not present. Anecdotal examples that immediately spring to mind is the medical application the EMTs on the ambulance transporting my mother to to the hospital used to update her patient data and transmit it to the hospital en route. The legal case management application the law firm I previously worked for also only synched with PalmOS directly. Lastly, as someone else mentioned, I'd contemplate murder if I thought it would get me a good native RDP client for WebOS.

2. There has been some issues getting users to develop for WebOS, when compared to other platforms. The reason for this could be debated nearly endlessly, but let's face it: WebOS trails iOS, Android, Blackberry and, I suspect, PalmOS and Windows Mobile. Also, the install base for WebOS is small and, prior to the release of the PDK, more complex apps were more difficult to code for WebOS.

3. The Pre (and Pixi) isn't being marketed as a business smartphone. The Treo was. Expect to hear similar similar screaming with Windows Phone 7 from business users - it's emphasizing the consumer, too. The end result of that will be business users switching to other plantforms that support their needs. That hurts HP and Microsoft, as the consumer market is already dominated by Android and iOS.

Who is to say Palm won't release a FREE PalmOS emulator? They won't have to pay to license it, and the source code is sitting in their lap.