webOS 2 and the hard call | webOS Nation
 
 

webOS 2 and the hard call 182

by Dieter Bohn Mon, 21 Feb 2011 3:53 pm EST

Above, you're looking at a photo of the two biggest product cancellations in Palm's history: The Foleo and webOS 2 for the original Palm Pre on Sprint. In both cases, the company made the hard call to cancel an announced product in favor of focusing their efforts on future products. In both cases (though obviously more with the OTA Update), they have incurred the ire of faithful users who have stuck with them on a rapidly aging platform. In both cases they were essentially guilty of overstretching and found themselves unable to execute on announced plans.

In both cases, they probably made the right call for the company even though it put current users in a lurch. Read on for what I believe was behind the decision to cancel webOS 2 for older devices.

No lie: plans change

One of the accusations that has been lobbed at Palm is that they "lied" when they promised that webOS 2.0 would be released to all existing devices. I can tell you flat-out that it not the case. I'm the one they told it to and who reported the story in November. In no uncertain terms: that was the plan at the time according to the several Palm reps I spoke to.

In fact, that was the plan that Palm (now HP) employees were talking about on February 9th at the Think Beyond event, just hours before Jon Rubinstein made an about-face and said that devices older than the Pre 2 wouldn't be getting the update. The plan was: depending on carrier approval, HP would be releasing webOS 2.x updates to "legacy" (their phrasing) devices via a download to your computer instead of Over-The-Air. For other users, there would be an alternate way to "make things right."

We also know the original plan was to release this update because, as you can see evidenced above, webOS 2.0 was released in a private beta (which, yes, leaked out) and was being actively tested. More on that below. For now I mention it here simply as one last piece of evidence. No lie: plans change.

Why was webOS 2.x for 'legacy' devices cancelled?

There are two different stories that I have heard from HP employees. Both have the ring of truth and so truthfully I believe both of them.

Reason 1: Over-the-Air issues. The original story we heard on February 9th was that a webOS Doctor download was possible for these devices, so the real announcement was that OTA updates wouldn't happen. The reasoning is that OTA works so differently in webOS 2.x and beyond compared to how it worked in 1.x that HP would need to achieve two fairly daunting tasks: maintain two significant OTA structures (for 1.x and 2.x) and find a way to manage devices making the transition from one structure to the other.

Both are significant challenges. In fact, we've already seen on OTA update that introduced a major bug related to saving games - a bug that didn't exist if you updated via the webOS Doctor. One presumes that the number and depth of such bugs for a major OS update like 1.x to 2.x would be several orders of magnitude larger.

Reason 2: Can the hardware handle webOS 2.x? This one is less clear. As above, we do know that the Palm Pre 'minus' on Sprint has run webOS 2.x because it was being beta tested. How does this beta run? Not terribly, but perhaps not up to HP's or carrier's standards. Was it fully optimized? No idea. Does Flash run? Yes, but poorly. Frankly I don't want to get into it too much because it's beta and not ready and, as you now know, likely not even going to be released (and no, we are not going to distribute the leaked beta. Ever. To anybody).

HP did tell us that there was some concern that they wouldn't be able to achieve the proper experience on these older devices. My sense is that webOS 2.x could run on "legacy" hardware if HP spent quite a bit of time optimizing it for lower RAM constraints, slower processor speeds, and the particular radios and boards found on these devices.

So much for HP Scale?

My hunch is that first HP looked at the effort necessary to support OTA and decided that their time was better spent building out the OTA infrastructure for the future. That infrastructure likely includes significant database updates (like CouchDB), support for having a single profile on multiple devices, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the beginning of real music sync services tied to your own collection via Melodeo.

With OTA off the table, what about supporting a downloadable update? That seemed to have been the original plan until recently. Again, my hunch is that it was again a question of resources: should HP spend time optimizing webOS 2.x for older devices or would customers be better served by having new devices hit the market faster? They decided on the latter.

In other words: the Palm Global Business Unit (GBU) still has limited resources and had to make a choice between continuing to update current devices or moving forward toward the brighter future. They're choosing the future. That same choice is also apparent to developers, who are currently in a limbo world where their available SDK will work on phones but not the TouchPad and it's clear that a year from now HP will want them to be using the new Enyo-based SDK.

So we come to the natural next question: what about all that "HP Scale" and "HP Resources" that has been hyped up since the merger? Two thoughts:

First, you can only bake a cake so quickly no matter how many bakers you have in the kitchen. It doesn't matter how much cash or resources you have to throw at it. These things take time and there's one clock that matters more than any other: the clock counting down releasing new products to market.

Secondly, to extend the metaphor, many of the engineers at HP are still cooks and not yet bakers. A lot of people left Palm after the HP acquisition and whether it was just normal post-merger attrition or a mass exodus, the bottom line is for the past few months there have been fewer real expert webOS engineers in the Palm GBU. Although a bunch of HP engineers came over to the Palm GBU, getting trained up and familiar enough with webOS to be able to handle something as complex as a major OS update takes a lot of time. HP decided that time is better spent working on what's next.

Tradeoffs: Then, Now and Next

So I think HP simply had to make the call: work on getting new products to market as quickly as possible or work on the two difficult engineering tasks required to release an OS update to an ever dwindling core of webOS users - many of whom are likely to be upgrading their phones in the near future anyway. Then: they genuinely were making the effort. Now: they cancelled it to focus on what's next.

What's next is new devices coming to market with either a completely rewritten OS (TouchPad) or a new version of webOS 2.x that's significantly different under the hood than 1.x. We already know that at least some Enyo support needs to be built into webOS 2.x for phones - the video calling feature, for example, is written in Enyo. Presumably HP would like to get as many apps as possible on that new framework before release.

Speaking of Enyo - as polished as webOS 3 looks on the TouchPad now, from what I can tell there is still significant work to be done. From the demos I have seen, the core OS is really solid. However, we have only seen extensive demos of a few apps: the web browser, email, calendar, and photos. Many more core apps need to be rewritten in Enyo - from Music to Tasks to Maps (oh god, please let us see improved Maps). From where I'm sitting, HP isn't releasing these products until Spring and Summer not because they're still working on the hardware., but because they're working on the software.

Truth: which would you rather have?

This is the choice that HP was faced with so far as I see it:

Either delay the Pre 3 and TouchPad out past what it already a distressingly long launch window (and perhaps even the Veer as well) to continue working on webOS 2.x for current phones or ensure that all three hit the market on time, bug free, and with awesome software. Scale or no, my strong hunch is that doing both with their current infrastructure and resources was simply not an option.

Am I happy that HP cancelled the update? No. It sucks for current users who have stuck with webOS through some very tough times. Would I have made the same decision were I in their shoes? Very probably, yes.

To the users who are unhappy with this decision, be honest with yourself: how likely are you to buy a new phone in the coming year? Wouldn't you like HP to ensure that you have a webOS phone available to buy?

A new promise: Make things right

Finally, let me point out once again that webOS users are some of the most loyal and amongst the most fanatical around. It is due in no small part to your passion, your loyalty, and even homebrew that HP has a userbase at all right now. If any company should feel grateful for (or perhaps even obligated to) a dedicated and engaged userbase, it's probably Palm / HP.

From their statements both private and publicly on their official blog, they get that. There's reason to hope that although they had to make the tough call to cancel webOS 2.x for "legacy" devices, they really do intend to find a way to "make things right" in a way that should ease our update discontent. While many users will forgive changing plans on the webOS 2 update, very few would be able to get over a half-measure way to make things right.

182 Comments

I'll be ok if they give us "legacy" users significant discounts on the Pre3 when it comes out on Sprint.

Dieter, I appreciate the reporting. Its weird that we don't hear this from HP directly but rather hear a bunch of cryptic comments that are contradicted by some carrier reps, O2 Germany for example.
I would feel more confident about recommending upcoming Palm devices to business colleagues (as I did a yr ago for the Pre+ and am now sorry that he is stuck with phone with no voice dial and easy email search) if we could hear a full explanation straight from HP

what bluenote said.
dont even know why i'm following this anymore.. HP.. excuses.

HP == Hype and Promises.

Nothing tangible.

M.

Xanadu= Complaining little bitch.

@Dieter, thanks for the article. I figured that it was something like. People need to know when to move on and when to come back. I used my update to buy an Epic 4G long ago. Now that HP is coming out with much better devices I will consider moving back to webOS. I'm glad I have significant amount of time to decide on that!

benthe = self righteous asshole

when you have a palm profile and have spent alot of time and money on, you may not want to just "move on" and come back. Your calling Xandu a complaining bitch, but he and everybody who stood beside palm have alot to complain about.

Not releasing anything worthwhile, then HP saying think beyond, with two form factors no one really wants, while effectively shitting on all the original pre owners the whole time. palm,ever since the Treo 700 have been FULL of nothing but promises or promising things that never really fully come to fruition, and besides the touchpad, HP's doing the same thing.

Im going to WP7 and looking but never coming back, since they probably wont release any kind of high tier phone any time soon. Hp only really cares about one upping the ipad at this point.

oh... First!!! :D

You were cooler before you said that...

This is probably one of the only things that would spark me about Pre3. I hope it's on Sprint and to be honest, I'll probably get one. A discount would sell me for sure.

Definitely...a discount towards a Pre3 would go a long way to ease the disappointment I now have that my Sprint Pre Minus is now essentially obsolete. Of course, a discount wouldn't do me much good if the Pre3 doesn't make an appearance on Sprint.

A discount would have been worthwhile if they had announced it at the event. But they didn't. They jerked us around, as they have for at least a couple months, making sure we didn't jump on the good deals on Android devices in December, and they continue to jerk us around.

I think Dieter is wrong, they DID lie to us. And now they make vague promises of discounts on a device with an equally vague release date.

HP had a chance to keep me in the fold, but instead they opted to deceive me, then announce a future device that may or may not be competitive with the iP5 that will definitely be released in June.

What I think is NOT being discused here is that if HP Palm GBU optimizes webos2.0 to run on slower devices then it will indeed be able to run that much faster on newer ones too.

If they can make it good on any device then we can stop worrying about it being too slow and start looking forward to new hardware features (fingerprint reader, stylus pen, etc) rather than just acceptable OS functionality (e.g. non-stuttering transitions)

Wrong

They'd be optimizing it for a chipset that they're moving away from.

In short - your statement is false

how about lets not talk in short. While they are different chips and optimizations for the new chip may or may not work on the old chip I will bet that 99.9% of any optimizations made for the old chip will benefit the new one plus any memory optimizations would always be a benefit, so I would say his statement is most definitely not false. A bit simplistic maybe but far from false.

not necessarily in most cases you have to add extra code to make the application run differently when face with lower resources. That would mean writing the same application twice one for better resource system and one for lower resource system. Something like when Windows 7 glass effect is on or off.

Or even better than just a discount on a Pre3, a discount on a bundle of a Pre3 and a Touchpad!! I'd go for that on the blink of an eye if the Pre3 comes to Sprint which it has to!!

It had better be at least ~75% off and pay off the contracts of people who just bough the devices recently.

I am also wishing for a deep discount. Since the original Pre was introduced we were told Flash will be here soon and now told sorry we have more important things to do. I don't know if this has been mentioned much however if it is on Sprint your bill will increase by $10/month due there new fee for smartphones. That's $240 over 2 years to receive the software we thought we would be receiving for free.

after being with palm for so many years. From 650p- 750p then the pre, I decided to finally make a jump to the epic 4g tonight. I love my pre but waiting this long and let down by HP doesn't seem right. I love webos but I've thought about it long and hard. Good bye webos. Hello android.

I'm in it for the long haul. I'm surrounded by Android at work and at home, but I like the WebOs interface so much better. I've had my phone since ROS (Release on Sprint), i can wait another few months.

Great editorial Dieter.

I honestly don't care about reconciling, the biggest issue to me will be when, if at all the Pre 3, Veer and Touchpad will come to Sprint.

I was bummed like most that our wait for Feb. 9th produced even more waiting. I was somewhat counting on the 2.0 update to keep me busy and tide me over for whatever wait may come.... Then no update to 2.0 for Sprint Pre. That was an extra punch in the gut.

I think HP made the right choice, but they should have figured that one out a lot sooner, therefore having product ready for Spring launch, not summer.

Here's hoping HP making it right is %50 or greater discounting... or how about buy a touchpad and get a pre3 included?

"... or how about buy a touchpad and get a pre3 included?" +1

Yes nice trade in discount when we bring our original Sprint Palm Pre's, the discount should no less than $50 and above. This would make things right and also the original Sprint owners should get the new device first :-)

Just gives a date already!!!!!

For me, it depends on the price of the Pre 3 for how much of a discount is needed.

I was really caught by surprise at how ill I felt after the Feb. 9 event. So much that I now have to seriously consider other platforms for my next phone purchase. HP/Palm still has an advantage since I'm still on their phone. As to if they further squander the goodwill of their passionate fans or really do "make things right" is up to them at this point.

Great post, and I definitely agree that from a business perspective it's best for HP to be looking forward. But it also looks like they have an uphill battle ahead of them...

http://mashable.com/2011/02/20/mwc-buzz/

The hype surrounding the TouchPad and webOS were virtually nothing, relatively speaking, at MWC.

I think this was mainly do to the fact that the big splash was 2/9/11 and HP really didnt have anything juicy for MWC folks didnt already see.

When HP is prepared for its next big bang for webOS devices, trust me, there will be lots of hype again. I hope it will involve release dates, carriers, apps and other partnerships.

Yeah, i saw this. It was very depressing.

I keep thinking that HP has something up there sleeve.

Simplistic ports of Android and/or iOS apps. Maybe new phone styles. They really only need 2 more. A keyboardless large phone and a side slider. This would be a phone for everyone's tastes, and One pad to rule them all.

I'd also like to see HP deals with governments, public schools, colleges, etc. Touchpads with security and built in book apps et. al.

HP is a behemoth but buzz isn't there strong suit. They have become the IBM of printers in the general publics perception. They need a massive "This is the New HP" campaign with a lot more consumer oriented devices. What about WebOs on a home Media server that works with the pads and phones and printers?

What they need is a "Make It Right" campaign. They haven't said squat about "making it right" since they exposed their lie^w broken promise. For all we know, that's all the "we'll make things right" will be too. They'll decide that whatever they thought at that moment in time won't work for Legacy Devices and can it... again.

Until I get a letter in my mailbox, on HP letter head, stating specifically how they are going to "make it right", it's just more mega-corporation BS caring more about the share holders than their customers.

M.

there's no hype because it's all vaporware!

Google seems to disagree with their "Analytics". These are news hits from Google targeted from Feb 13-17.

"HP Touchpad" 960 hits
http://tinyurl.com/48kqan9

"LG Optimus Pad" 624 hits
http://tinyurl.com/632aat8

"Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1" 472 hits
http://tinyurl.com/46dmljf

"Motorola Xoom" 2190 hits
http://tinyurl.com/47xf5od

"Apple iPad" 3640 hits
http://tinyurl.com/4chu87m

"Blackberry Playbook" 819 hits
http://tinyurl.com/66en6uf

"HTC Flyer" 922 hits
http://tinyurl.com/6d38gwm

Cooks and bakers? Oh no. Next you'll be telling us Iceman was stable cause he wears mousse in his hair. lol.

I got the pre plus on VZW and can't upgrade till the end of September. Not having 2.0 till then (3.0 by then?) sucks. more and more I'm seeing things in the catalog for 2.0 or not available for 1.4.5. Which I completely understand for the devs, but man the next 8 months or so look bleak for me w/o a 2.0 update of some kind (official or unofficial).

To "make it right" I'd want either a) a significant enough discount to warrant breaking m contract for a pre3/or early upgrade depending on carrier or b) release 2.0 to the wild so webOS Internals can figure out a way to put it on the pre plus. The former requires money and arguing with Verizon and other carriers; the latter requires a decision and clicking send.

If I were HP I know which one I'd pick

But as a consumer, I'd rather have both :p

If you bought a "legacy" webOS device after webOS 2.0 was announced and promised as an update I think you have a legitimate beef with HP and they better make it right. In fact, they could expose themselves to a class-action suit. If you bought before webOS 2.0 was announced I can see being disappointed, but you can't say it was part of your purchase decision. My launch day Pre was getting long in the crack anyway, so I'm happy with updating by getting a Pre 2.

You can say they didn't lie, whatever that means in this context, but you can't say they didn't do anything wrong. There would be no need to make things right if they didn't make things wrong in the first place.

Good write up!

I honestly can't wait for the new devices. I will continue to hold it down with my Pixi until then.

Sorry guys to be negative, but I have an early Pre under Sprint. Love the WebOS and the hardware has been good to. But first I got screwed by Sprint so I could not upgrade to Pre Plus and now HP is selling out with regards to I cannot get WebOS 2 running on my Pre.

Let me think real hard do I want to buy a Pre 3 and TouchPad and be screwed again since what insurance do I have that HP is not dumping all this when Google offer them to use the Google OS?

Seriously? "when google offer them to use the Google OS?" Tell me you don't think that is an honest possibility.

EVERYTHING that has been posted on here and everywhere else shows a clear dedication to the long haul investment in WebOS as not only a mobile OS but a complete ecosystem (so to speak).

It is uninformed and completely irrational comments like this that just make me completely shake my head.

Seriously?

I agree with you. There is a slim .000001% chance of HP reversing position and going with Android. It is totally not in there best interest. However, if WebOs maintains it's market share then they won't have a choice. Look at everyone who bet with Toshiba (i.e. Microsoft) against Blue Ray.

At the end their will be 3 (maybe 4) phone OS's. Android and iOs are both locked in. That leaves Phone 7 and WebOs fighting to see who flinches first.

I dont know how possible it is, but if they were able to put a webos skin on android, they probably would of had a win.. Palm prob considered it before being bought by HP.. but HP has no need to use android

It is SO much more than a skin. True multitasking at the core of the OS, not some after-thought bolt-on. An unmatched (no contest) notification system, which for me is the single greatest thing in my daily use. An openness and flexibility that the other OSes can't even begin to support.

But to your point, some argue that Motorola's RISC archietcture CPUs were so much better than the x86 CPUs from Intenl, so it just goes to show you how much a little marketing and a war chest can get you. The nice thing is that HP has both, so it is now just a question of execution, and HP isn't doing any worse than anyone else here. Summer will tell...

This is a level-headed and very clear explanation of how business decisions have to be made sometimes. Thank you very much for it!

I still love my Pixi - I would love to have a Pre2, but I'm not in a position right now to fork over the cash. Honestly, I kind of hope the Pre2 is still available when my contract comes around for renewal. That, or that the Veer becomes available on CDMA (on Verizon).

I don't want a large phone. I want the utility of a smart phone. I like my small phone. I would love a Veer. I really don't expect a company to keep my old equipment limping along - i want new stuff that meets my needs. The Pre3 is too big - give me a Pre2, or even better a Veer.

Thanks again for taking a level-headed look at HP's decisions for the future instead of the past.

hey... that's what i said too... http://bit.ly/gWfwFw

Meh. Honestly, 2.X doesn't really bother me.

If I can get a $20 discount off a Pre3 that will be more than I could ask for.

People overly upset about this have a misplaced sense of entitlement.

In any case, what is it, only about a quarter of phone users currently have a smartphone? Yeah, as a company HP should be concentrating on the new customers instead of just pandering to the old. Cold-hearted I know, you bought a phone from them (which you probably only paid $50 at most for) you didn't enter a lifelong blood pact with them.

-Suntan

Just $20? I'd rather have $200

$50 at most? Lay down the crack pipe. The vast majority of people running webOS are on Sprint. When has the Pre EVER been $50 on Sprint? You know, before they stopped selling it? And still, Sprint webOS customers make up the bulk....I hope they revise their strategy for new customers, it doesn't seem to be working. I won't even mention those poor fools that bought a Pre Plus at AT&T...oh well, at least you guys got a free Touchstone to go with the year you have left on a phone Palm now calls "legacy."

+1

Except for this: "If I can get a $20 discount off a Pre3 that will be more than I could ask for."

I think they could do a little more and it would be good press. More magnanimous than Apple! LOL

I was hoping webOS 2.0 would keep me busy with new features while I wait for a new device on Sprint. At this point I wouldnt expect HP to offer a big discount. I mean the OTA updates are free. So now I wait to see what will be the next webOS device on Sprint. Pre 3?

HP can relase the Pre OS2.x beta and let the users decide what to do (with big disclaimers if they want to). And I am very sure that the Homebrew community will not take long to at least get rid of any significant bugs. This will not cost HP much.

If they cannot do that, at least they should try and get Enyo to run on older devices (perhaps with a compatability mode so the programers can decide what device not to program for). As we have seen with Voogle and a couple of other other apps it is possible to make good apps for the Pre, but with a dev framework that supports additional functionality (aka mic APIs, etc), less genius is needed to make compelling aps for the legacy devices AND a broader market market is reached by the programers, more quickly.

I rather have a future than a past. Get me a new working, by working I mean no calendar, e-mail and exchange bugs & better google maps, than webOS 2.0 on legacy devices.

I want a Pre3 on Sprint with a virtual keyboard like the Touchpad! That's a user experience that is the same on all devices!!!

All well and good. But too little, too late for me. What really killed it for me was their inability to cut the time between announcement and launch. I can't wait for some mythical, coming sometime in summer launch. I have 2 phones that won't see it through half a day when we go out of town (a sprint pre and pixi), can't live that way anylonger. I'm really going to miss WebOS, and hopefully it will come along and all work out and be a stronger, more realistic platform when we next are looking for phones. WebOs's loss is also sprint's loss, as the pre is what brought us to sprint, and we've now switched carriers, too.

Is there any possibility that webOS 2.0 is being held back by the carriers themselves, particularly Sprint and Verizon in order to force users off the original Pre onto newer phones?

In any case, it's turned into a ridiculously frustrating game of "Hurry Up And Wait" -- particularly for us Sprint users. First we wait for "Plus" versions which never came. Then we wait for webOS 2.0 which will never come -- at least not OTA. Then we wait for the Pre 2 which in all likelihood will never come. Now we are told to wait for the Veer/Pre 3 and (maybe) for a webOS 2.0 Doctor, with no guarantee that any of the above will ever come. How much is too much?

Plans change there is no doubt but Palm/HP does not deserve a pass. They were in a hurry to boast about webOS 2.0 coming to all devices in the fall of last year and it would be naive to think that they didn't make that announcement with the intent of buying some time and keeping the webOS faithful strung on their aging devices. Make no mistake about it, there are many who fell into the latter category including myself.

I reject the idea that it is ever smart to destroy your most loyal user base in this way. They are the ones pushing your product to others, espousing the greatness of webOS like no Verizon employee ever will and now they are left with the distaste of more vapor promises. Had this announcement come alongside product launches then the harm wouldn't have been so great. But as we all know HP won't be launching worthwhile devices until some undetermined time in the summer. For all we know that could be delayed as well.

Not to mention that most of the scorned are on Sprint and no definitive word has been given as to whether the devices are even coming to the carrier. No matter how many apologies or times we hear about how it was a difficult but good business decision will it allay the fact that HP/Palm could have handled this a ton better and that it will hurt them in the short-term at a time when they can least afford any negativity on their mobile brand.

I do believe they handle the communication wrong but I don't think this will hurt to bad in the long run since their is a huge market out there.

So they had to choose which to focus on....

Updates for older devices OR Releasing new devices faster......

I'm sorry but I don't see either actually happening. Maybe they just called the whole thing off....

If not please HP stick to your guns and release the "new" devices ahead of schedule.

My contract ends with Sprint in May I have a palm pre if Sprint gets the Pre 3 and HP gives us a discount towards the purchased of one I will hold on till then but if does'nt happen then I will move on to Verizon or ATT.

Enjoy parting with your money - them's some expensive carriers!

Sprint must be solid where you live. But where I live...well let me put it this way: You get what you pay for

It doesn't matter if they meant well, it doesn't matter if plans changed, hell, it doesn't matter if the Pre- is physically unable to run webos 2.

They still lied when they said it would be able to.

If I tell a client I will get x work done by x date, and I don't because it turns out I underestimated how much time it would take... the client is going to be pissed. It was my fault for not understanding the task at hand.

It's Palm/HPs fault for not understanding their own constraints. This is why you don't announce things until they are ready.

google the definition of "lie" and edit your post kiddo - you're wrong

From wikipedia...yes I googled Lie and looked at types of lies.

I would say it is likely that all of these apply.

Bluffing - To bluff is to pretend to have a capability or intention one does not actually possess. Bluffing is an act of deception that is rarely seen as immoral when it takes place in the context of a game where this kind of deception is consented to in advance by the players. For instance, a gambler who deceives other players into thinking he has different cards to those he really holds, or an athlete who hints he will move left and then dodges right is not considered to be lying (also known as a feint). In these situations, deception is acceptable and is commonly expected as a tactic.

Exaggeration - An exaggeration (or hyperbole) occurs when the most fundamental aspects of a statement are true, but only to a certain degree. It is also seen as "stretching the truth" or making something appear more powerful, meaningful, or real than it actually is

Careful speaking - Careful speaking is distinct in that the speaker wishes to avoid imparting certain information or admitting certain facts and, additionally, does not want to 'lie' when doing so. Careful speaking involves using carefully-phrased statements to give a 'half-answer': one that does not actually 'answer' the question, but still provides an appropriate (and accurate) answer based on that question. As with 'misleading', below, 'careful speaking' is not outright lying.

Fabrication - A fabrication is a lie told when someone submits a statement as truth, without knowing for certain whether or not it actually is true. Although the statement may be possible or plausible, it is not based on fact. Rather, it is something made up, or it is a misrepresentation of the truth.

Lying in trade - The seller of a product or service may advertise untrue facts about the product or service in order to gain sales, especially by competitive advantage.

Misleading/dissembling - A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth. "Dissembling" likewise describes the presentation of facts in a way that is literally true, but intentionally misleading.

Puffery - Puffery is an exaggerated claim typically found in advertising and publicity announcements, such as "the highest quality at the lowest price," or "always votes in the best interest of all the people." Such statements are unlikely to be true - but cannot be proven false and so do not violate trade laws, especially as the consumer is expected to be able to tell that it is not the absolute truth

Just a few untrue facts that were advertised to users.

-Will get Flash.
-Will be the first to get Flash.
-Will have Mojo messaging service.
-Will have access to 2.x updates

For many individuals, these factors played a large decision in making their Pre, Pixi, Pixi Plus, Pre Plus purchase. I've talked people into buying one of these devices, some of them in the fall of last year. Yeah, I should've learned after waiting for 1.5 years with no Flash but still advertised webOS since Flash was included in the 2.x update that we were all going to be getting.

The offer of Adobe flash did influence my decision a little when purchasing my Pre(-)

Though back at the Palm Pre(-) launch it seemed the only really nice touchscreen phone sprint had..

I'd like to have WebOS 2.x on my Sprint Pre Plus. Also thinking, i'd rather skip over the Pre2 and get the Pre3. HP please get this out asap! If you think about it, HP/Palm is wasting their time and money to push out a software update for a temporary/limited time fix until their old phone dies anyway (we all know about the build quality). Hopefully the "make things right" statement stays true and hopefully applies for us Sprint users that have been holding out.

Good Job Dieter!

Dieter, I’ll have to agree with you. As much as I do not like waiting and wondering, I still have a choice in the matter. I can always leave and get one of many great phones. But I don’t. Why? Because it is my opinion that WebOS is the best mobile OS available today, even if it isn’t really available to me. But then again, it is. I can get a Pre2 and use it on Verizon right now. I don’t want to; I want to stay with Sprint. I have a family plan on Sprint that I can’t get close to on any other network. But I’m looking. I’m looking because I have the ability to get the phone I want on the plan I want on the carrier I want. If not, then I alter my plan as needed. Right now being a WebOS fan is painful, sure, but I endure. Why? Because for all appearances, HP is doing things right for the long run. They can’t fix the short term so they are setting the foundation for a long term product that is going to knock the sox off of the competition. HP realizes that they can’t compete with iOS or Android right now in the consumer market. But they can compete with them in the future. Maybe even as soon as one year from now (likely more.) They are gearing up for a big market share that they can compete in and that is enterprise. Rim is the king of enterprise and the king is vulnerable. Once WebOS is available on phones, tablets, netbooks, laptops and workstations, they’ve won! They can bundle any combination of these items and sell them to IT directors like crazy. Add in an HP plotter, camera or server that is running WebOS and you have a full turn-key infrastructure that can touch-to-share. Imagine what you can do in a business meeting once touch-to-share is fully integrated into all HP products? You need the meeting notes? Here, touch-to-share. You need the client file? Here, touch-to-share. Not to mention Synergy. As an IT director I can see me purchasing a bundle of the Pre3, Touchpad, and HP Workstation for my users. I get great hardware that is integrated together.
I know I’ve rambled here, but HP is not looking to beat Apple or Google today. They don’t need to. They only need to compete with them in the long term and that is what they are doing. I am willing to wait a bit longer to get my killer phone/tab/laptop/workstation from HP knowing what they are going to be. Maybe I have too much faith in HP, but just imagine where we would be if Dell bought Palm!

I'm with ya. WebOS is unmatched in terms of user experience. (I'm an Apple fan as well, but I'll take WebOS any day-- it's still more fluid and natural to use. Can't wait for the TouchPad.)

yeah...i'm not upgrade eligible till July 2012. So I'll take the update please. I'm not going to take a 'discount' on a device, because I'm not in a position to be buying a new phone. If hp wants to toss a free pre2 or preferably a veer my way though, I wouldn't complain ;)

Am I one of the only people who doesn't care so much about not getting 2.0 on my Sprint Pre? My only concern is what I will I end up having to do if my Pre fails before new hardware is available. (and it sounds like a FrankenPre made from a Pre2 may be that answer.)

I think I'm more disappointed in Sprint as a WebOS vendor, I would love a straightforward Pre2 update right now. I have absolutely zero interest in Android, and there isn't even a WinMo7 phone on Sprint to tinker with in the mean time.

I kinda miss the days when smart phones were a novelty and not such a hot consumer item (thanks, Apple)-- in those days. Expected a phone to last me 2 years ;)

I am do for an upgrade on 4/1/11(tough **** right?) Nah my plan's over $200/month so I'm good there.(Gold Premier ++ BS)

I am planning on sticking with WebOS till it goes in the ground.(I LOVE IT!!) I've been lied to. I've been left in the dark when it comes to FLaSH and the 2.x update.

Guess what? I don't care as long as I can get a Pre3 on Sprint for a decent price. If its a discount I will take it. Although to be honest I am gettin the f*c*in Pre3 either way. It seems like a solid flagship device and puts most current hardware to shame. I want it now HP. That is all...

cool story bro

I could accept the arguments in the article a lot easier if this was the first time the loyal base has been "mis-spoken" to.

Past history on many issues (flash, doc editing, api's, video, voice dailing/commands, many other bragged about features that never saw the light of day, and the original quality control problems) show that there is a severe disconnect between the people who are WORKING ON THINGS, the people who are PLANNING THINGS and the people who are SAYING THINGS.

To have HP representatives "mis-speaking" about the 2.0 update at the big HP party in front of all the people that matter so much to keeping webOS alive: people which HP invited to to the event, brought there to talk to HP people and to learn what HP had to say, is inexcusable.

I wonder how those folks that were "mis-speaking" on Feb 9th, felt after they saw the announcement: "Hey, guys, could you have bothered to tell us that was the plan before we went out and looked like total idiots to the developers and the media?"

This is not new to HP, it was there before, but has obviously carried over. Add to this, of course, the "we won't announce things until ready to ship" debacle and you have more evidence that one hand is not telling the other hand what it up to at HP.

Dieter, Dieter, Dieter,

You are as waaaayyyyyy off on this one as an Angry Bird that gets catapulted backwards.

Reason 1: Over-the-Air issues
------------------------------
They could've released the OTA WebOS 2.0 update to the original devices BEFORE the Pre 2 devices came out. Then once the Pre 2 came out, everything would've already been on WebOS 2.0. They would never have had to tangle with supporting two OTA architecures. Not only could they have done this, they had planned doing this awhile back. Remember Flash and then Flash with 2.0 coming soon? That was waaaaayyyyyyyy before the Pre 2 was even being mentioned by the PAAAALLLLLMMMMMM guy. So COMPLETELY SCRATCH reason 1.

Reason 2: Can the hardware handle webOS 2.x?
--------------------------------------------
You are wise not to get into this one because there is no bother. We saw this working looooonnnggggg before the Pre 2 came out on first gen Pre's. SCRATCH REASON 2.

That leaves no reasons in your article.

"Am I happy that HP cancelled the update? No. It sucks for current users who have stuck with webOS through some very tough times. Would I have made the same decision were I in their shoes? Very probably, yes."

- WHOA!!!! You are really pointed in the opposite direction of the pigs' castle
on this one my angry little bird.

"To the users who are unhappy with this decision, be honest with yourself: how likely are you to buy a new phone in the coming year? Wouldn't you like HP to ensure that you have a webOS phone available to buy?"

- Keep up with current events. HP is the 2nd largest computer manufacturer in the ENTIRE WORLD. THEY DON'T HAVE RESOURCE ISSUES!!! That is ALMOST like saying Microsoft or Apple has resource issues working on their own OS. HP had Sandy Bridge i7-2630 Quad Core laptops to market one week after they were FIRST shown at CES for crying out loud! PALM had resource issues. Palm is so far gone its' logo doesn't even exist. HP DOESN'T HAVE RESOURCE ISSUES!!! There wasn't even anything left to do on it. It has already been accidentally loaded on Pre's that we have seen OTA and working. THEY DIDN'T NEED RESOURCES TO FINISH ANYTHING!!! You make it sound like HP had to pick between putting out a new phone or supporting two and going bankrupt. Do you really believe that?

- I will give you that we are more likely to buy Pre 3 phone anyway but why should I even believe it will be out by summer???

We were promised Flash and webOS 2.0 last year. It should've been out, a long, long time ago. It should never, ever have come to the point.

How do we know they are not lying to us again and the Pre 3 isn't going to held off to onto EOY?

Because they promise?

You just shot me with an exploding angry bird. Turn that sling around!

HP may have resources, but the Palm GBU is lacking in the most important one: human resources. From what I can tell, they just don't have the engineers to do both. They could hire 1,000 engineers tomorrow and still face the same issue.

Hell, looking at Palm's job board, it looks like they are trying to hire that many anyway ;)

You are right, though, that I didn't chronicle every broken promise or near-promise in the article. Whether or not people should trust them going forward is definitely another issue - tried to allude to that in the end.

Speaking as an attorney, there is no other conclusion than to say we were lied to: if I tellmy wife that I am not going to the strip clubs, and continue to reinforce that position "just hours before Jon Rubinstein made an about-face" and he and I stepped inside the Itchy Kitty on Sepulveda Blvd., my previous statements can not simply be reconciled with my actions as a mere change of plans.

Disclaimer: Ruby and I actually visited the Blue Dragon - he likes the Asian decor there.

The OTA problem is supposed to be related to the need of 2.0 to grow its partition on the device, to the point it may have had to completely erase the user's data. Because Palm has no desktop solution and limited backup resources (app data/scores/etc are not saved), they faced a potential upset from users whose data may have been erased by updating. But since this upset would surely have been less than the people who are flatout disgusted that Palm abandoned all of our devices, it's a stupid reason.

But Dieter is right about one. The delay of the Pre 3 to the summer is for one simple, simple reason: Palm still cannot fix webOS to not have a crapton of bugs or provide it some woefully missing features/apps and they need until the summer to fix it and pay developers to put some worthwhile new apps on the device.

The OTA update issues would still be there even if they released it before the Pre2 came out. There are still some carriers that haven't let 1.4.5 roll out yet and do you honestly think the carriers would let something go out that would have a high probability of corrupting data on their customer's phones? Not likely since they would be flooded with complaints.

"We were promised Flash and webOS 2.0 last year. It should've been out, a long, long time ago. It should never, ever have come to the point. "

actually we were promised flash in 2009 the year before last.

It is not a matter of "promises". It is FAR WORSE than that:
If they REALLY believed they could manage to get webOS 2 to run on "legacy device" till the very last minute, and then discovered it would be impratical/antieconomical/impossibile, doesn't it mean they're simply tragically incompetent?

Doesn't this mean that the same lack of competence may come back to bite them when they'll try to get Enyo/webOS 3 on the Veer and Pre3?

Even if they didn't release 2.0, it is BS that Palm didn't release a smaller update. Having used the leaked ROM on my Pre, the update does use significantly more memory than 1.4.5, which can probably be attributed to Just Type's ability to handle multiple apps and web history (although the launcher/results are faster than 1.4.5) and the different way in which Palm handles accounts. But hey, you ARE right, it would take away resources from fixing webOS 2.0, which is borked in its own way (Google Calendar syncing is FUBAR on webOS 2.0.1, and yes, it's the same on the Verizon release).

Do you realize that this phone CANNOT get any media apps in the catalog because those APIs are STILL private (and now, changed)? That mic access is still closed off? No voice dialing (not that webOS 2.x has a working version of it)...it's a pathetic display from Palm, P|C and WOR can "rationalize" it all they want, Palm dropped the ball big time, said screw you to everyone who has supported webOS through its beta period. They better hope like hell everyone jumps on the Pre 3 bandwagon, otherwise, it's rinse, repeat for a new brand of suckers. I did really like the Pre 3, but I am completely soured on HP/Palm and the future of webOS.

Palm/HP/Sprint--"Yeah, let's screw over everyone who bought the Palm Pre, Pre+, Pixi & Pixi+. Our whole current consumer 'fan-base'. Lets string them along and give them false hope. Then when they are expecting Great news (Can't believe they actually wanted us to 'THINK'...Guess what I'm 'THINKING' Now!!!?), let's tell them that if they are current WebOSer's, they are now SOLer's."
We stuck with them believing the empty promises & coming soon Flash updates.
Love the platform! But as a loyal OSer ( I should just put an 'L' in front of the OSer, because I'm definitely a LOSer for keeping up my end of the contract, & passing on any upgrade) I just feel Used & Abused.

The Quote--- 'In the Coming Months' causes me to start having 'Flash'backs (Pun intended).
I happened to meet a Sprint Store owner @ a local Casino/Sportsbook here in Las Vegas.
His advice to me when I went to visit him for my 11th Pre replacement (this time-No WiFi working, several screen cracks, upper rt corner button stuck, etc...) was to quote "Get away from this phone." I said that I was hooked on the WebOS multi-tasking platform & he admitted to being hooked to his BlackBerry.
Bottomline is, I can't find a current phone I want to switch to & adjust to.
I can only pray that HP will learn from the past & that the Pre3 will be made available on Sprint this Summer w/ some sort of special deal for current Pre Owners (maybe Day 1 (free phone), Month 1 & Year 1 users should be given different degree's of discounts).
Just hope Sprint makes that deal.
It's Ironic, the definition of insane is doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results.
Call me insane then.
I will let my contract expire & go month to month til I decide what to do about the Pre3. Insane?
We were promised 'In the Coming Months' Updates that were never delivered.

Just wondering, is there any kind of Class Action Lawsuit happening yet?

11th Pre? WTF were you doing with it?

Hear.. hear!

If we buy the PalmPad we get a free Pre3, that would be very nice and smart from HP, because it would sell more tablets.

Even though I doubt that HP would part with a $400 phone (guessing) in order to help sell a $700 (more guessing) tablet as a way of apologizing to the several thousand Pre minus/plus owners, I would have to take that deal. And I have no real use for the expensive toy that a tablet really is. Still, for every 10,000 of us with the non-webOS 2.x phones, HP will be giving away approximately $4,000,000. Even for a company as big as HP, that is a lot of money.

REASONS = Excses..
HP screwed up & is trying to get the word out that " it was in users best interest"?
If Sprint cared about it's Pre user base it would have fought HP for the Pre2 & Pre3.
So what happened at Sprint? You think they really said F'Off to a million users? What do they have against HPalm? That Sprint is willing to risk loss of 1million contract customers??
Someone tell us the truth for a change NO MORE EXCUSES from anyone....

I can understand the Business Decision. Always have, but they should of at least said something at the Developer Conference... like "We are working for something for our Loyal users. that have been with us since the begining" I think that would of avoided many of the complains people are having. I think finding out from news Sources rather then HP directly is what caused the Ill feelings. But I for one am waiting for the PRE3, :D As much as it sucks to be on the old platform, I can wait, I mean how long was I using Windows XP?!?!? LOL I never upgraded to vista and went straight to Windows 7 and even then I waiting a few months LOL!!

Oh and I would like to see some pricing before I commit :D

HP bought Palm for WebOS... all other plans are soft. Thus, there should be no disappointment. Don't be surprised if the Pre 3 is the last phone with WebOS on it. Now if HP was smart, they would pitch having WebOS on other industry accepted phones, i.e. Samsung, HTC, Motorolla. Then everyone would have their phone fix, and HP could focus on desktop/tablet computing like they'd like to.

Whatever else you can say about Apple, the fact is they've got people spoiled when it comes to legacy device support. Coming from any other smartphone platform, this is really nothing new. Android users are lucky if they see one major OS update after buying a device (as I've unfortunately discovered first hand).

Really when it comes to new hardware vs OS updates, I'd rather see new devices every 6-12 months with regular OS upgrades than see palm go the route of Android handset manufacturers: constantly churning out new hardware so quickly that a device is obsolete as soon as it hits the market.

Or a WebOS device like the (QU)veer that has been zapped by Zoltron's shrink ray

From Palm's Blog:

"We’re working on something that we hope will help make things right for you. We’ll be sharing the specifics with you when they’re ready."

I sure hope you do...

don't hold your breath. no announcements until "the coming months"

I've been quietly reading these webos 2.0 legacy device stories and the many comments for a long while now and decided to set things straight as far as I can decipher based on the fact that I work at a corporation the size of HP and am an MBA student.

=== HP is not a single entity ===

Everyone talks about HP as though it was a singular entity, which it is not. In fact, there are probably all sorts of variations of direction within the company. Even worse, Palm was just added to HP and can no longer pursue their original course of business ideals because they are overrun with HP power struggles and bureaucracy.

The reason we've heard two different stories from HP is that there are the marketing/sales people who have no real understanding of what is actually going on within the development department within palm and will say anything to make people happy unless explicitly told by upper management. That being said, they have their own set of power and it is obvious that some product manager/sales person somewhere within the organization with lots of power made the statement, "If we give legacy devices the newest software, how are we going to push the new devices? We need differentiation! I need my bonus!"

Within the development department, we probably have a loyal subset of developers who believe that putting some minor resources to push updates to legacy devices (no matter the means of the update distribution) would be the right thing to do and is probably not that difficult, especially considering the similarities between hardware. But someone with more power, and the power to manage these resources with no backlash from palm loyalists wants to get their own agenda completed and within corporations there's never enough resources.

=== HP's marketing division ===

Well obviously this is an HP fail. Marketing is more than just supplying a device or some software features and calling it a day. It is the entire experience for a customer that counts. Apple understands this completely, hence their success. HP marketing thinks that by copying what Apple does and not what they believe it will be good enough to market the same way they do. Lets see the current performance:
* They have an exclusive release event which reveals disappointing products that focus on feature set rather than user experience. Seriously, no slab phone? Which manager made THAT retarded decision!?
* They have the event many months before the products are ready.
* At the event they inform the entire loyal fanbase that they are being screwed over.
MARKETING FAIL!

=== HP's corporate alignment ===

Having the standard corporate motto at HP, everyone is out for themselves with a minor few actually caring about the product they are putting out. I think this is what differentiates Apple from most companies. Steve Jobs realizes that Apple products are crap without their supporting customer, and so they model their business around thinking ahead, developing and designing for their target audience, and aligning the ENTIRE company to put customer experience above all else knowing that this alignment is parallel to their profits, not perpendicular.

So why are we, the Palm loyal, getting screwed over by HP? Because it's HP and not Palm. If anything, Palm was the customer centric organization of the two. There is no unilateral belief in supporting the Palm loyalists because there is no more Palm and HP management knows this. Because there are too many managers at HP with their hand in the cookie jar for any crumbs to be left for their customers. HP is not adding features to these phones because they think we'll like them or they will be best and most beneficial for the users and customers, they are adding them because they think they will sell and make them money. Companies like HP do not use resources to produce features unless some product manager somewhere said it would bring in money.

Apotheker stated that he wants HP to be as cool as Apple. Well as all the "cool" people know, you can't be cool by pretending, that's called a "wanna be". For HP to be cool, they have to believe as Apple does, and that's from the top to the bottom. Until he gets the reigns and really makes HP change their ways, I don't see this transition happening any time soon. The one thing that HP did follow in Apple's footsteps is the limitation of hardware life-cycle because of "user experience". Well Apple targets users who have "average" tech knowledge, and by this I mean people like my mother who doesn't know she can record TV on her DVR. HP doesn't realize that they are targeting a completely different user group, the ones who know how to do things like doctor their phones. If I have the option to doctor to 2.0 and don't like it, I can always doctor it back to 1.4.5 and call it a day, give me the choice!

There are a few different kind of business models: business centric (HP), marketing centric (Apple), developer (internal within the company - not app developers) centric (Google), and customer centric (Palm).

=== What this means for us ===

The reason HP reps are being vague about what "loyalist" will be getting and say "we will do right by you" is because they don't know as of yet and they want to shut us up until it's forgotten. Guaranteed, what they do for us will align with their own goals. The decision will be made after the Pre 3 is released at which point they will view their sales numbers and use business metrics to determine if issuing a coupon will move more consumer surplus into their own pockets, and how big the coupon should be to move as much into their pockets as possible. If they could make a maximum profit without any customers at all, that would most definitely be the choice they would take. Customers being mad at them is only a concern if they believe it will affect their quarterly goals.

=== Why loyalists are pissed at HP ===

Us loyalists have literally been working for Palm (yes now HP). We've been their marketing team, their development team, their sales force! I've personally convinced 4 other people to make the move to Palm/HP with promises of a hardware accelerated UI and flash support. They got broken hardware and newly outdated software.

So what was our payment? Support by Palm/HP. So of course we are mad about their re-neg of webOS 2.0! We worked so hard and made a fool of ourselves for nothing! It's like I had a paycheck of pride and updates and HP came over and tore it up! I expect that's what most of us are feeling right now, betrayed and robbed. Nothing but disappointment from the bloated blubbery that is HP.

As much as people here HATE APPLE. Give them credit. They know how to treat the user base. They took the time and effort to bring out a quality product and have done regular updates that bring more stability and function to the user's device.

What do we get from HP. Oh yeah we will have phones. That's just not our priority. Remember that one from Hurd. That should have shown what they think of the user base.

We are cattle and sheep for them. Throw out any slop and we will gladly lick it up.

To quote In Living Color Hey HP Homey play like that!

I never saw a company do such p1ss poor presentation and expect good results. Wait, wait I did see another company do something just as bad. Sprint a few days before with that disaster of and event for that dual screen monstrosity.

I agree with some of what Dieter said (webos not being ready is the hold-up). But I don't agree with a lot that you said (HP's lack of resources and more).

I won't belabor the point because I am a self confessed webos and touchstone addict. I will sit here with my 1/2 broken, unsupported (i.e. "legacy"), Pre- and suck it up until Veer or Pre3 hits the streets.

BUT I promise you this...I will NEVER proselytize webos again. Ever. I fear we're going to be perpetual webos beta testers.

Dieter this is,
i have been running 2.0 on my UK pre minus for several weeks, the only issues are the lack of bookmarks for the browser and inability to buy paid apps. These are minor issues that would be easily fixed.
Everything else works fine - in particular the update brings a lot of functionality that should have been there from the start(favourites for contacts and spellchecking to name 2 simple things), let alone the significant productivity advantages that just type brings for easily creating emails and tasks.

I have little faith that "summer" is likely to lead to a UK pre3 before november. In the meantime we are supposed to accept that we can't have 2.0 because it won't run on our devices - well it does. If there is a partition issue then they should come out and say that, and even then there is no reason why they shouldn't release the update to those who want to try it.

I appreciate that the company that runs precentral relies on goodwill from HP when it comes to early reviews and access. However your post makes you sound like an apologist for what has been pathetic customer care, poor communication and a pretty **** attitude to those remaining palm enthusiasts.

Is there a possibility for me to get acces to this 2.0 beta?

Ah, I feel better now. We weren't lied to, they just did an about-face. Come Dieter.

H/Palm's continuing silence is only making it worse. In a few months many of our original Pre contracts are up. If there isn't a credible WebOS device for sale on Sprint, or at least, there isn't a credible peace offering from H/Palm, I am off to Android.

I love WebOS, but the time for H/Palm to do right by the old and loyal Pre users is now. Otherwise, I don't trust them.

Right now, to me, it looks like HP is handing out Major releases only with new phones. If it happens that the next Major release/new phone is released shortly after I bought m phone I am screwed.

If they are not loyal to me, I won't be be loyal to them.

I think I'll wait until pre4 is out and see what happens to pre2 and pre3. Then I'll make my decision.

bye palm, bye hp

Fairly late in the 4G game? (Let's disgregard for now that it really isn't 4G...)

The vast majority of available phones are 3G data, and we have Sprint thinking about swapping out their 4G architecture from WiMax to LTE.

C'Mon... this is the infancy.

I'm in the 'disagree' camp as well.
props to everyone who gave thoughtful analysis.
100% agree on optimization, and from talking to EX-palm employees, it's clear the lack of interest/focus on optimization was frustrating to them too. BATTERY LIFE in particular. However everyone can attest to speed. The veer we played with was still laggy, and that's WAY better hardware than most on market!

HP's major fail (also Palm's) was communication. Even still, we're all left in the dark, hoping against hope. It's a bit rude, really.

and no, dieter, I wasn't planning n buying a new phone this year. If I have to pay stupid carriers the same whether I'm on contract or not, I'll be on contract. And it's more than a year from now until I'm off contract.

unless palm gives me a free pre2/3, no, I'm definitely not getting a new phone this year, and this phone is starting to suck already. It's like, beyond planned obsolesence, as a non-tech friend astutely pointed out. *sigh*

I agree completely Dieter. I believe that this was the business choice that probably had to be made. I don't like it but I understand. The only thing I think they could have done differently was make the 2.0 no go decision sooner and communicate it better.

A business choice has to lead to good business results. Look at the majority of this comments. They have to start patching things up "business wisely"... soon!

And if they are able to focus on the new platform and sell millions of units while unfortunately alienating the SMALL initial base then that was the right business decision. It is sad but true and I don't like it anymore than anyone else.

I think they are trying to push the older device owners into 2.0+ devices. They probably looked at the roadmap with new devices being added to webOS and realized they'd continue to have compatibility issues. They probably realized the older device owners would be disappointed repeatedly from now on. I think they saw how damaging it would be keeping an injured, disappointed userbase struggling with increasingly inadequat devices. They want to sunset those devices and stop supporting them. I expect we will hear about "making it right" when the Veer is released and it will involve turning in your active older device for the upgrade, or discount. 2.0 will never hit older devices.

First android device: G1.. got several OS updates. Look how big Android is right now.
The Palm Pre is not just a "legacy" device. It is the first device to a whole new platform that has been adopted by milions of people.

Even Apple supports its "legacy" users, isn't that "cool"?

While I can sympathize with HP's business decision I believe it was inexcusable that HP didn't have a plan "To Make Things Right" prepared before for the Feb 9th announcement. What has allowed this business decision to become a disaster was their lack of preparedness and their still present lack of getting on top of the PR situation and leaving it to blog-o-sphere to decode mysterious technical limitations and possible solutions. HP's communication simply stinks.

I am one of the gravely unhappy Sprint Pre- users that is under contract for another 1.5 years. I just bought my phone after qualifying for an upgrade from my old Centro. As the application ecosystem transitions to Enyo I will be left out of the cold of purchasing new apps. HP has to be sensitive to the fact their customers are tied by the carriers to contracts and can't just upgrade because they feel like.

As I'm stuck with this phone I have no choice to wait it out to see how, or if, HP "Makes Things Right". But unless HP offers a completely satisfactory (read FREE phone or WebOS 2.0 update) response in a timely and well communicated manner I won't purchase another WebOS device no matter how big the rebate is and end my 10+ year history as a Palm customer. It's doesn't matter how great the "multitasking" is if I have no apps worth multitasking.

I agree that they should have been prepared "To Make Things Right" prior to Feb 9th. Unfortunately most corporations take a gamble and react to dissatisfaction instead of doing the right thing and focusing on the customer.

On another note:
Unfortunately our business society has devolved to the point that they only focus on the customer to the extent that it doesn't hurt returns to shareholders. Customer and product focus died the day the first company went public. Just my 2 cents.

i'm trying to figure out your point Kuasi... You talk about hp 'screwing' palm loyalists but you don't reconcile it with the fact that hp saved palm. Maybe you need a do-over on your MBA and realize that companies (all companies) have hard decisions to make... It's not about screwing people... It's about allocation of resources. I love my Pre+ ... But the best thing hp can do right now is focus resources on an awesome lineup of new hot devices that make it a viable player for the long term ... Not waste focus on palm's past.... Otherwise none of us will be able to get a future webOS phone....well be stuck with a crappy android.

Dieter, et al,
what palm and HP have done borders on, with a good attorney and a sympathetic jury, a practice known as "bait and switch". It can be confirmed that they openly stated that things will be given to us. Now, they have changed their minds. Normally, this wouldn't mean much in terms of litigation. It would fall under 'caveat emptor'. BUT because most of us are locked into a contract, and many of us will lose our ability to upgrade/switch to a different device without any price break in a few weeks, and ANY solution for the users (us) would cost us money, it starts to border on fraud and deceptive practices If it can be proven that sprint was in on it too, you can add coolusion to the class action lawsuit....

Hmmm I agree on certain aspects of your argument D, but here is my take. I am a MBA student no I dont know everything there is to know about Large scale companies but I know a lil something. I am a Palm loyalist and I to am on Sprint like most of us here are. Here is what I don't like about HP/Palm as a whole. One they are trying to me to be to much like Apple and they cannot be. We have waited a very very long time for what the same exact phone(s) expect what for some much needed internal upgrades but thats it. They hyped there event so much that we all were expecting a different type of form factor at least one. But yet we get the same thing except one larger and one smaller. The only thing I loved about there Think...... event was the TouchPad. Being like Apple statement dates back to the iTunes fiasco until they quit the cat and mouse game they were playing with apple. Apple can come out with one phone every year make some minor changes and it'll sell like hot cakes, why because they have a huge fan base and HP/Palm you all don't. They needed to cater to everybody and realize that a slightly bigger and slightly smaller Pre would not be enough. Not to mention that Oh it'll be out in the coming months WTF did they not learn from the stupid mistakes from the Pre launch the coming months thing is so old and so tired. Now me and many other Palm loyalist have to wait until when summer WOW really HP/Palm. They need to understand that there communication is horrible one person says one thing and the other person says another. Why announce something if it will not be ready soon there after. From a business stand point I understand but dam come one HP/Palm this is bad business. I personally don't have a problem with the Pre's design but what about every one else. There job should have been to get at least two different form factors out, I mean is this what we all waited for to have the same one phone. I love the Pre but another option would have been great. HP/Palm is ruining the best Mobile OS there is in so many different ways. They are losing WebOS loyalist as we speak and type. I for one don't want to see it die but the way they are going this is surely going to happen. PLEASE HP/PALM PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will be patiently waiting with my little pre, dont care about any other OS.

It is very aggrevating to have to wait so long.
I would rather both! but will settle for a Pre 3, its just such a long wait.

The real issue would be... is there a guarantee Sprint Pre owners have a CDMA available to them in the summer on day 1.

All I really wanted was Flash anyway (no matter how slow).

Very well written piece. I think this article was needed to clear a few things up.

HP needs to get its house in order. Something is wrong when you have employees from all different levels saying completely different things.

The difference between the Folio disaster and WebOS2 disaster is that nobody owned a Folio. The only damage done was to Palm itself that wasted time on a dead project. Palm fans were not happy with the Folio Announcement but our Tungstens and Treos still worked as before and new apps continued to be developed. Not so now!

This is one other reason why OTA is not as good and the Apple way of updating much better no carrier interference at all and everyone gets the same software upgrade a the same-time. Also in many cases Apple has one person working one the software that they are releasing. Why can't supper big HP not do this? I say they release the "beta" as is via download right now for pre and pre plus and pixi plus. Why? Jut update the phones right now. Hp is huge they should be able give you a download upgrade even with somethings trued off like Apple does with the 3GS.
Here is the solution release an download now for older devices.
This should not take anytime at all and does not debunk from devolving the newer devices
They release new devices on time
finally after new devices out in peoples hands you can go back and update the older devices to be on pare with the new onces as much as possible like planed.
Problem solved

My idea is sos good that I will allow HP to use it free of charge I suggest that they hire me to prevent any miss-ups in the future.

why can't we at least get *some* sort of upgrade that's not to 2.0? there's a lot of 1.xx choices left to give us SOMETHING before we hit 2.0...

The amount of crap you are trying to feed your readers is quite astounding.

Sure they lied, if I today say that I will give you $100 tomorrow and tomorrow I say I won't I have lied PERIOD.

And WebOS 2.0 runs just fine on older devices, just look at the dev days video where HP engineers say that they optimized 2.0 to run on Pres. 2.0 RUNS JUST FINE ON OLD DEVICES, STOP MISINFORMING PEOPLE!

But I know, I know you want to keep this site alive and HP is doing their best to kill WebOS and they seem to be succeeding.

I for one will tell everyone what a bunch of liars HP are and they shouldn't buy from them anymore EVER. Their products are old anyways when they are finally released.

Outside of a 30 day jaunt with an Android device, I've been all in with Palm and webOS since launch day on Sprint. Before the flamers start-a-flaming, let me preface my comments by saying:
1) I KNOW it's ultimately up to Sprint whether or not it decides to carry the Pre 3
2) I KNOW that HP/Palm can't waste a lot of resources to supporting 2 year old hardware, I get it.

That being said, one way or another, HP/Palm needs to get that Pre 3 to Sprint users, if they have any chance at all of saving our loyalty and salvaging their ever decreasing customer base.
They need to twist Sprint arms, pad pockets, even give'em the damn things if they have to, because if they don't, they will have lost ALL credibility with the launch day Pre folks and will have hand delivered most of them over to Android or iOS.
Long story short, the day they announce the Pre 3 on ANY carrier other than Sprint, will be the same day a HTC EVO 4G appears in my pocket and the Pre minus returns back to the river with the other "river stones".

webOS 2.x would be nice on my Pre-, but I don't care too much. I'd MUCH rather get a Pre3 ASAP! Software can only take you so far (almost 2 years in webOS 1.x's case) if the hardware can't back it up.

I have lost all faith in HP not because of the update I don't care for that i m talking about how long is taking them to get mew hardware out !!!!

Although I get the logic...it's a little dissapointing that Precentral has to make excuses for HP and Palm not having their act together on both lack of announced support for legacy devices and not getting devices to market in a satisfactory time frame. There are so many shortcomings that other people have named that it is of very little use to reiterate them and have a 10 page post.

I'm still on my Sprint Pre currently as Sprint's phone selection is a little lacking so there isn't a phone I want to use my upgrade for currently.

Pre2 should have been out last year in June...in which case I'd have 2.0 and some of the goodies I've been waiting almost 2 years for. Other goodies aren't addressed.

I still don't get the logic of not having carrier visual voicemail on a smartphone. It's available on pretty much every other smartphone OS and for a lot of feature phones. I feel like I've gone back in time every time I dial into my voicemail.

can't get a pre 2 or 3 with Bell anymore... Still 2 years on the contract....
I have to change network and pay cancellation fees if I want to upgrade webOs....

Can you see why I'm pissed off??

Once the hospital system I use gets an Android app later this year, I am done with Palm. They can have the best phone in the world, which they don't, but waiting and hoping for native apps over the past year has been a waste of time. Epocrates gets pulled, most everything else is available on iPhone or Android.

Commodore Amiga, Been there
HD DVD, done that
WebOS More of the same.

Better platforms with no support from software developers wither and die.

This is very well done piece, well thought out, well written. Very logical.

Although I agree with your logic, I think that HP should release a WebOS 2.0 for the Sprint Pre and Pixi for goodwill if nothing else.

It has been shown to work. Hedge the release with disclaimers. Tell people, use it at your own risk. Tell people that you are likely to lose many of your settings, whatever. Go back to the this will WIPE YOUR DEVICE CLEAN!!!

People have felt that they have been lied to, defecated on, &etc, so much that HP's stock is worthless for many people. Even if the best business decision is to NOT release WebOS 2.0 for the Sprint and other devices, it is a very poor decision from a end user support question.

Telling people to wait, wait, wait, the good stuff is coming, and then for them to take us to the mountain and show us, here it is, but sorry, you won't get it, is just bad, and will make people very unhappy, as everybody sees in comments to this post.

People don't want promises, they want action. They don't want sometime, they want hard dates that are stuck to.

Maybe HP has to remember their roots. That they are a electronics engineering company, first and foremost. Gag the bean counters and lawyers. And get the device done and out the door.

Uh, they lied when the Pre(-) web page said it would be receiving WebOS 2.0 in the coming months (FALSE ADVERTISING). How have so many people missed this!

And as for the video (http://www.precentral.net/webos-2-0-will-be-released-all-devices-coming-...)of an HP employee saying all devices would receive WebOS 2.0?

CHANGE OF ANNOUNCED PLANS = NOT THE TRUTH = LIE

And what about the Adobe Flash we had been promised for over a year!?!?

This whole article ignores the biggest point of contention I have. The time between the last official word that the updates would happen, and the first official word that they would not happen, was so short that there are only two explanations.

A. The latest announcement that we'd be getting updates was a lie to keep people from getting angry before the big event.

or

B. The people running the show are completely incompetent, and honestly didn't figure out they had to chose between the two until the last minute.

Actually HP dropped the ball. They simply did the same mistake Google has been facing with Android 1.5/1.6 and the migration to Android 2.x.

I actually don't care if I have to use the doctor to get webOS 2.x as long as I *can* update my old Palm pre.
HP is punching the users and also the developers in the face with this decision.

First they lose some loyal customers and secondly also some developers. It's great the you guys in the US can get the developer devices but guess what...not outside the US.
That's the first "minus" for the developers.
The second problem is even worse. Developers lose 60-70% of potential buyers. Maybe the old Palm Pre/Pixie users will upgrade but I think most are currently that pi**ed that they get a device with Android,...

Getting back to the developers...some might say: Well you can test your application in the browser/on the VM. That's true but maybe you want to run it on real hardware as well. If new API functions are only available on webOS 2.x then you basically abandon the webOS 1.4.5 users out there.
I'm not talking about touch to share. That's a nice feature if you buy the tablet but otherwise not really important.
The same applies to the Touchstone 2 functionality. This might be nice to have but is also nothing you *must* have.
Basically that's all I see the new devices support which can't be integrated into the "old" Palm Pre because it's only software.

So HP abandons with this strike a major part of all webOS users.
For developers this is basically money if they want to sell their apps.

I'm very happy with my Palm Pre (minus) running the Ueberkernel with the Screen250-800 profile.
If a developer phone won't be available for a very good price I won't restart my webOS development projects. I'm currently quite happy that I stopped the development end of last year because of the announced update to webOS 2.x! I assumed this would involve API changes so I stopped before I had to reimplement several features. Still this move by HP wasn't expected.

in a fit of "someone is wrong on the internet" rage, i scrolled frantically to the bottom to comment, until my pre crashed and i had to pull the battery...

just about sums it up.

apart from... If webos3 on the toytabletpad still needs a lot of work and no hardware out yet (naturally seeing as this is hpalm), why not just rip it up and use their non-existant scale to write webos4 for all the new devices, and hold off that hardware till like, august (read: april 2012 for anyone not in the states)?

ruby and leo are probably considering it. Chumps. Palm should have dropped it's price by about $5.9bn and BEGGED at HTC's door.

Great article, Dieter.

I'll get flack for this, I'm sure, but, yeah, I'll say it:
I have trouble wrapping my head around how people in this community get so wrapped up in issues like whether webOS 2.x will come to the original Pre or Pre+. (Yes, I have the original Pre, bought the 5th day after release only because I was away on business. I still use it. I am only on my second unit b/c the first Pre's keyboard gave up the ghost.)

Who could even spare the time scrolling through all the negative comments in reply to Dieter's article (and other articles about the cancellation of webOS 2.x for legacy devices), let alone spend time reading all of them.... Am I really expected to believe that so many of the webOS faithful have been holding out all this time for an *update*, *not* a new phone? (And, if you've already moved on to a new phone and/or platform, why troll these boards? Learn more about your new device at another Smartphone Experts site.)

Disappointment? Yes it happens as a part of life. But get over it. Does someone mean to say that so many in the community were watching the Feb. 9 HP event like rabid dogs because they had absolutely no intention of getting a new device--but give me webOS 2.x on my thirteen-month-old device? Really?

Thank you, HP, for making the tough (but business-wise) decision. I like my Pre, but it's time for a new phone. And I'm looking forward to what HP has in store.

OK. Rant finished. Back to real life.

Well, wrap your head around this then - Not everyone is just upset about about the lack of an update. Many of us are upset about the way we were told, and the timing. The only explanations are dishonesty or incompetence. Either they lied to keep people from getting torqued before Feb-9, or they were so clueless that they really hadn't considered their resources and obstacles well enough to know it was going to be a problem until the last minute.

We're left between a rock and a hard place. Either HP is so dishonest that we can't trust any announcement they make, or they're so incompetent that we can't trust any announcement they make.

At the same time, many of us are even more upset because we love the platform so much. I'm stuck loving the platform, but being completely unable to trust the company responsible for it. I don't like android or the latest windows phones, I can't stand blackberry, and I simply refuse to buy an iAnything.

Quite a few of us are also upset that PreCentral would put up such an excuse-laden article. I frankly can't believe any person who has followed recent events posting this unless they're on HP's payroll.

Well I just got my Pre in december. I was believing what HP PROMISED. Now it turns out that they lied and I am stuck with a device I hate.

Btw IMO this article is a disgrace. You guys are paid by HP.

I got a sprint pre a month after release. My first smartphone I came from a tungsten e2... Replaced a month later - user damage, paid $100 to asurion. Been homebrewing all along. The new one I dropped an cracked the housing slightly. It lasted until November 2010. The touchscreen finally went. I used my upgrade to get a new Pre b/c I wanted a working phone right away. Now, my upgrade won't come til september 2012. No 2.0 update. Break contract? I don't have a huge budget for full price phones or more expensive carriers... I'm not mad or betrayed and I don't want to whine about it. I would like advice it seems that less and less will b developed for my now obsolete hardware and os version. So I'm hanging on to my pre while it lasts saving up for an android I guess if I don't make it to a better option from hp... This once exciting phone platform is now making me sad.

"should HP spend time optimizing webOS 2.x for older devices or would customers be better served by having new devices hit the market faster? They decided on the latter."

Really? They decided on the latter? You could've fooled me because as it currently stands its still "in the coming months" and still no carrier announcement.

So we get no 2.0 update AND we still have to wait months for a Pre3 and if you're on Sprint like I am who knows if its even coming on here. This is an absolute indefensible joke and I'm tired of being loyal to a company that seems to have no clue how much it's alienating its devoted fanbase, to the point no one will be around for any new products they release once they finally get their act together.

Speaking as an attorney, there is no other conclusion than to say we were lied to: if I tell my wife that I am not going to the strip clubs, and continue to reinforce that position "just hours before Jon Rubinstein made an about-face" and he and I stepped inside the Itchy Kitty on Sepulveda Blvd., my previous statements can not simply be reconciled with my actions as a mere change of plans.

Disclaimer: Ruby and I actually visited the Blue Dragon - he likes the Asian decor there.

That's exactly what I've said all along. The only alternative explanation is that the Palm division of HP is so poorly run that they never did their due diligence until quite literally the very last minute.

Given their size and long term success, dishonesty is far more likely that total incompetence.

We heard you the first time

The best thing HP could do for all of us WebOS fans is to license it to other phone suppliers. I am certain that a few them would move away from Android for WebOS. And maybe we could end up with better choices on all carriers. Just think of the possibilities....drooling here...

they're phones...chill.

The Folio and WebOS2 aren't even remotely in the same classification. The former something few thought would workd and no one kept waiting for a promised update that never came.....all the while HP knowing it wouldn't. No one seriously thinks they just figured it out on Feb 9, 2011. Let's not use the Folio as something that even remotely gives a pass on the lies and misleading statements by HP and Ruby.

As far as 'making it right', you won't see anything. Just as they know the subservients will fall in line with WebOS2 not coming to the initial users who built the foundation, they also know that they'll just fall in line when they are told they only get a bumpersticker that reads, "I'm a bitch for WebOS".

"To the users who are unhappy with this decision, be honest with yourself: how likely are you to buy a new phone in the coming year?"

Quite likely. I just took delivery of an EPIC 4G Android phone on Sprint. (I purchased my "legacy" Pre on 6/5/2009.) They made their business decision and I made mine. I'm OK with that.

What I object to is not that they reneged on their original statement for whatever the reason. It's that they should have seen the sh*t-storm coming and taken the necessary steps to "make it right" BEFORE going public with their revised decision. Afterwards was too late. They badly bungled the management of said sh*t-storm.

good rebutal to the lies/changed plans/excuses or what ever you want to call it these days.

starting to sound like a broken record going round and round.

like a bad habbit, i just keep coming back for more.

im done with webos for now. ill come back when things get settled.

I don't think people would really care - if we could BUY A PHONE

Precentral.net independent? Yeah right.. Not a single negative word for HP / Palm about this so called promise for "legacy" users. As a Palm loyalist I'm very.. very .. disappointed in Palm and in Precentral.

And for the : "We don't, ever, leak the 2.0 beta for the Pre minus.." what a shame. You better didn't say anything about this.

The Foleo will be returning in webOS! I knew Jeff was onto something, just the tech wasnt there yet at the time.

Kind of like the Apple Newton. It was a great idea, that simply couldn't be supported by the tech of the time.

To those of you who utilize your phone to only play video games, watch You Tube, and chat on social pages.. sure, its just another phone...

...but if you use them for professional work, they become more than that. Just like Palm's trusty old PDA's, and the Treo's that followed, our Pre's have become essential to those of us who've relied on Palm's productivity for years and expected as much out of their latest... (which is now suddenly "Legacy" hardware). Sure its "old" in the Uber-fast-paced world of electronics, but OTA offered some hope of value and extended life... HP just doesn't want to spend some time and money.... Simple, but they will lose far more if they don't. The fact they pushed the damn things right up until Dec... Come On!

Also, older Pre/Pixi owners kinda knew the situation, but some of you are amazingly smug... not everyone has been on Pre Central or surfs the Tech Blogs. New Customers sure deserved better than this...

"Customer Satisfaction" is supposed to be part of the business equation, but that began to fade in the 80's. Many of you don't even know what the hell that means. My dollars are mine to spend, & any company that wants my dollars should treat me better. In effect, they do owe All of Us. We spent our money on their product with a reasonable expectation of certain services and future OTA offers... things do change, but they should be followed up with real explanations, not vapor-ware and more empty promises.

"Lies", "Promises"... Whatever you want to call it... HP Palm DID show it off and even had some carriers set up serial number update checks for webOS 2.0... Person or Not, it qualifies as an "upcoming feature" aka a promised upgrade.

YES, there is a problem here and the fact that I have a saved voicemail from an HP manager replying to my email and apologizing for the situation does back-up that they DID.

What they do to "Make IT Right" has yet to be seen... The sooner HP comes clean publicly and also announces some tangible offers for "Making IT Right", the better off they will be. The longer this drags on with no word from them "Officially", the sooner webOS becomes irrelevant. A company as big as HP can POUR Billions into any product, but if no one believes in them or their product, its simply money pissed into the wind.

With WebOS we did have promises of comparable productivity apps... outside of the lame token apps., they never came to pass.

PS I've had my first, Original Sprint Pre - for a long time... well cared for too, but it is starting to fall apart now. USB screen crack and some glitchiness.