webOS 4G in 2010: chances looking slimmer? 148
Clearwire (mostly owned by Sprint) had their first quarter earnings call and promised to launch two WiMAX smartphones by the end of the year. The first will come from Samsung, described as an "Android-based 3G/4G/WiFi device optimized for heavy video and video communications use" and the second from HTC which was dubbed a "3G/4G/WiFi enabled phone." Clearwire even went as far as saying during the call it wasn't the EVO 4G but a yet to be announced Device.
Why should webOS lovers care? No 4G Palm webOS device was mentioned whilst the company felt entirely comfortable pre-announcing two other WiMAX based smartphones. Whether we can deduce anything from this remains to be seen, however that mythical Palm C40 is looking a lot less like a WiMAX webOS device now. But hey, look on the bright side, HP said they're doubling down and there's always the hope that will mean a faster hardware cycle.
Here's the real question: do you care about 4G yet? Must the next webOS device on Sprint have 4G or else be annihilated by the likes of the EVO? Have your say in the comments below!
148 Comments
I'm not getting a new phone for 20 months anyway - I was happy with my Treo 650 for 3 years, and I'm sure I'll be happy with my Pre+ for two.
I am really really positive that Palm has a hand in the announement delay!
They absolutely do not want to mess up the At&T launch.
HTC EVO 4G OBSOLETE IN 18 MONTHS. Clearwire which is built on 4G WIMAX technology, could soon be switching WIMAX for LTE
What a silly statement! Sprint / Clearwire will not be switching to LTE in 18 months. Even if they decided to start the process now, it will take years to roll out an LTE network. The fact is that Sprint and Clearwire are committed to WIMAX. Other carriers are going with LTE.
Even if WIMAX were to become obsolete in 18 months (which won't happen), the kind of people who frequent this site don't typically keep phones for more than 18 to 24 months anyway. Frequently even less. If Brand A, or brand V, come out with something newer, better, faster, cooler in 18 months, nothing will stop any of us from switching.
Silly? Years? Not so. It is a simple software change at the towers and on the phone to switch from WIMAX to LTE.
It aint come from me, see it for yourself @ Ozcarguide.com
That would be like MSFT making PCs and installing OSX. Clearwire IS Wimax.
But it does mean we'll be able to poop on the Evo trolls very soon after they jump.
THIS JUST IN!! HTC EVO 4G Available june 4th for $199
um so? Go announce that in the Android forums.
My p**** is big enough. I don't need 4G 18 months before the service arrives. And I don't need to pay a $20 premium in hopes I drive through 4G service a couple of times a month. Bigger battery, more RAM and snappier interface will make my life better. Nobody disliked EVDO until the Supersonic runor got traction. Do it, but do it right.
I very much care about 4G, and no 4G in 2010 is a tremendous blunder for HPalm.
"But hey, look on the bright side, HP said they're doubling down and there's always the hope that will mean a faster hardware cycle."
Palm should be coming out with new hardware every 4-6 months if they want to remain competitive. There are glut of Android phones flooding the market that need contenders, and you need to stay one step ahead of the iPhone's specs to even approach competition with Apple.
It's not the number of released phones but the quality that matters.
There are a bunch of Android phones because a lot of different companies can make them. Palm is one company. Apple releases one new iPhone per year and they seem to be doing alright.
Agreed. Heck since Palm has released two phones in the same time period as Apple are they not twice as good?
The only company that seems to push out a ton of Android phones is HTC, and frankly their fast development cycle means a lot of their formerly top of the line phones get marginalized and ignored when their next best thing comes out.
As for the topic at hand, I'm not sure why so many people feel the need to upgrade a phone every 4-6 months. Given that the US at least requires 1-2 year contracts for new phones, I'm not sure why the rush. Sure you could continue to buy the latest and greatest at full retail value, but that just seems a mite bit wasteful.
Personally I'd rather see the Pre and Pixi software updated and opened up. I'm sure we could see voice dialing (don't know what people use it for, but they seem to want it), control of the mic, better calendar app, and document editing before we see new hardware. I'd hate to see Palm (HP) be one of those companies that releases a product and stops caring about it the second their next big thing comes out.
Finally, 4G is a nice marketing tool, but none of the other phone companies have it ready, and Sprint doesn't have national 4G coverage either. While it's nice to be on the bleeding edge, and I'm sure they have a 4G phone on their roadmap, I would personally prefer that they keep developing and perfecting it rather than release it this year just to say they have 4G.
Perhaps, but Palm needs to build MarketShare. Both Android and Apple have and are building MarketShare. People in the market for new phones will buy cutting edge. The time to get people on board is now. If Android captures the "1st SmartPhone" buyers then those buyers will lean toward Androids forever. If Palm captures them they will lean toward WebOs forever. It's like Windows and Mac all over again.
HPalm can't sleep on cutting edge tech. They have to come out with a phone that bests or at least matches the 4G Android's specs.
"Apple releases one new iPhone per year and they seem to be doing alright."
The iPhone is a corner case. It has an 'i' on the front and an apple on the back.
People are used to the "One True Device" thing from Apple. No other company can repeat that success, period.
4-6 months, a new device or device refresh. It's really the only way HPalm should hope to gain anything beyond niche status. Mark my words.
must be at least 4g capable. With or without 4g service. Just so it's ready when 4g hits.
By the time 4G gets to where I live it will be time for another new phone anyway.
Exactly.
Most of us humans live in cities, and Sprint is hitting all the big ones before the end of this year.
So you can understand why so many of us are clamoring for a 4G webOS device.
how does a place like Battle Creek Michigan getting 4G before Indianapolis? Have you ever been to Battle Creek? There's nothing there. Indianapolis has an NFL team but no WiMax?? Sucks to be those humans living in that city.
No Sprint/Clear is hitting a few very big cities and some smaller cities nearby. http://www.clear.com/imap I don't even see a California city on their map. Only 2 of the 5 largest cities.
last I looked at their map and scheduled cities before years end Indianapolis wasn't on the list. Yet smaller places were.. So what takes a city to get added on the network? Maybe they don't like the Colts like me. Lol
well, I think we need a new phone with a better camera, big screen, and etc. 3G, 4G, who cares...
Just because Clear isn't launching a 4g Palm phone doesn't mean Sprint isn't, or that they aren't but couldn't say anything due to NDAs. I have the overdrive right now and at 6mbps, I'm quite happy.
Why would Clear be announcing the new Palm device, anyway?! They didn't announce the EVO, that was Sprint. Even though they are partially owned by Sprint, I don't think they speak for Sprint. Just the fact that they announced the launch of two devices this year, neither being the EVO, tells you that they consider these two their own devices, and they are not counting carrier releases in their announcement. Palm needs a carrier release, not just a small niche market internet provider, like Clear.
4g is a must if only to show that Palm/HP is a serious player in the smartphone market.
They are launching Clearwire 4G brand phones made by HTC and Samsung not necessarily only Two 4G phones in all, meaning Clearwire is launching two 4G phone of their own, but that doesn
4G IS NOT A NECESSITY
The next generation iPhone will have a front facing camera for webcam enabled features. Problem is, you can only do it if connected to a highspeed wifi. With the EVO, cause it's 4G enabled, you can use the front facing camera regardless if you're connected on wifi or just the 4G. So is it a necessity? As yourself this in about 12 to 24 months when more and more 4G enabled phones are released.
So, Palm only has 24 months to get 4G going? Hope they can pull that off.
I don't care about 4G because 4G is not offered in most areas. When it is and Palm doesn't have a phone out, it's a legitimate complaint.
What most people on these boards don't seem to realize is that the smartphone carriers are not after people who read PreCentral and follow Engadget. They are after casual phone users. That's where the money is. And they don't give a shit about 4G and won't for a long, long time.
We are talking smart phones here so I'm not sure the casual market is the focus. However, I agree that the masses contribute the bulk of revenue and are the primary target. But if you can get buy in from nerds like us, you can start to convince the masses that they need these features also. Then you can sell them the good stuff. It's not about whether or not we really need 4G; it's about whether or not they can get us to think we need 4G.
If you don't think the "casual user" is who phone companies are now going after for smartphones, you're crazy.
If you ask any "casual" iPhone or Blackberry user "Hey, would you like your phone to go a little faster...say 3 or 4 times faster, would you want it?" I'm sure you don't have to be a nerd to answer "yes".
I'm not sure I'd call iPhone and Blackberry users casual. If you can afford those phones, you probably would pay for faster service. You sound like a salesman.
Salesman: Sir, would you like your phone to go 3 or 4 times faster?
Masses: Hell yes!
Salesman: Just sign here.
Masses: What's this?
Salesman: It's your new contract.
Masses: But I don't want a new contract.
Salesman: But we have to charge you more for this new cutting edge service/technology.
Masses: Ummm, I'll wait til the price comes down. Thanks anyways.
Nerd: Did somebody say technology?! Gimme! I'd be happy to pay whatever you ask. Here's my first-born child.
"4G IS NOT A NECESSITY"
A faster connection to the Internet is not a necessity for a computer?
I don't know about you, but my home currently has the fastest broadband access available in my area, and I would upgrade immediately if a faster option existed.
Whoever says they don't need 4G is either in denial or have never experienced 4G themselves. I have the Sprint Overdrive. After 30 days, it replaced my Comcast cable and I've been carrying this thing with me wherever I got. My Palm Pre flies when connected to it and my iPod Touch is now used more than ever. And yes, I can stream Hulu or Netflix and surf the web all at once. It's THAT good.
With the pending EVO coming along and the option to have the mobile hotspot with 4G, I am more than sold to get this phone.
Since I can't experience 4G because it isn't in my city yet or even in Clear's rollout plan yet I can emphatically say that I don't need 4G in my phone. This first generation of 4G phones will likely already be replaced by a second generation by the time 4G gets here! (40th largest US city by population - Omaha, NE)
Wouldnt you want a 4G phone so when it does hit your city you are good to go?
If I thought I wouldn't be upgrading again even before that. I seriously doubt that wimax will be available in my area during the entire time I am on my next phone. Like I said, I believe there will be another gen of phones before WiMax gets here.
Edit: I realize I'm perhaps not being entirely clear. To put it bluntly I believe we will be looking at a Pre 3 or Pre 4 before 4G/WiMax will be available here. I think the EVO 3 will be on its way to retirement before 4G/WiMax will be available here.
I think 4G is one of the easiest ways that Palm/WebOS can distinguish itself from the iPhone/competitors.
It also will give users (at least on sprint) an option if they want a 4G smartphone.
Comprehension fail on Adam Carr's part. I read this several days ago and didn't think twice about it. Clearwire is announcing 4G devices for their service, not Sprint's service.
This article is pointless. Please do a better job of understanding what it is you're reporting next time. You're going to cause a lot of excitement/disappointment for no reason.
+1
The first thing I thought was what an epic fail this article was. We already know Sprint planned to have a dozen 4G phones out this year.
Oh, really, I don't recall that. Where is that quote?
While I know there is a distinction between Clear and Sprint, I honestly don't know where that lies.
ah, my friend, there is a distinction between Clear and Sprint. If you go to www.clearwire.com you can get Clear data plans and Clear branded wireless broadband modems. Nothing there says Sprint.
My suspicion about the Clear phones is that they may not even roam on Sprint. Why not have a Wimax only VOIP phone? Obviously Clear is only marketing these phones to customers in their coverage areas, and there's no reason to have traditional voice service on CDMA or GSM in those areas.
Going to http://www.clearwire.com I find no evidence that they offer cell phones or cell phone service, however, Clearwire's earnings report specifically states they are launching "smartphones" this year. Here's the relevant quote from:
http://investors.clearwire.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=198722&p=irol-newsArticle...
"The Company also expects to launch two WiMAX smartphones by the end of 2010. From Samsung, an Android-based 3G/4G/WiFi device optimized for heavy video and video communications use, and a 3G/4G/WiFi enabled phone from HTC."
If they're getting into the cell provider biz then news of these two phones means diddly squat for Sprint. My brief scan of that earnings report, however, makes no mention of that. If they're not getting into the cell phone biz at all then these two smartphones would have to be for one of their partners, of which, Sprint is the only one I see providing cell phone service.
Another thought just occurred to me along these lines: Could HTC be the manufacturer of Palm's next phone? Clearwire get's rather specific about the Samsung phone, but gives nothing up about the HTC device. It could just as easily be a Windows Phone 7 device, too.
Yes, indeed. I didn't read the release and missed the 3G spec on those phones.
And you're right. There's nothing on the Clear website about phones or phone service yet. The HTC build idea is intresting. It would only make sense that Clear would partner with Sprint for phone service outside of the Clear coverage areas. I will be really disappointed if they use CDMA for all of the phone functions, even in areas where Clear has Wimax service. It would be a great distictive for Clear if the phones worked over Wimax where Wimax is available.
Of course, if Clear really wanted to be smart about it, they would be CDMA/GSM Wimax/LTE world phones...but I'm just dreamin' about that. =)
Palm can gain more by improving webOS:
improved productivity / PIMs (for business owners, professionals)
improved speed (webOS tuning for snapier behaviour)
continue and strengthen developer relationship
With a streamlined webOS, I could live for quite a while.
BTW, thanks Palm for such a great OS (GUI wise).
I just love the "Zen-of-Palm" !
If Palm's slogan is "Life Moves Fast, Don't Miss a Thing", then they better get 4G.
hell ya lol I jus hop it's a hot phone
im getting the evo the day it comes out the wife will get my Palm Pre. ill come back to palm next year if they have what i want right now they dont
The next Sprint webOS device NEEDS to be 4G. People are already saying the Pre is outdated hardware. The next gen webOS phone would be outdated from day 1.
Myself, I don't personally need 4G. I don't even live in an area where it's available. But people just think they need 4G, even when most don't. It's a matter of perception.
If you stream movies to your phone or use the camera for a video call, you will need 4G. I guess most people will be happy with 56K modems?
I don't care about 4G for my phone. However, if getting 4G means I can connect my laptop and drop Time-Warner Cable like a hot rock, sign me up!
HTC EVO 4g today is the big party in NY .price and launch day!!! I am ready for the change!!! Bye bye palm pre!!!
Bye. We all look forward to you complaining about the EVO.
I posted a poll on this about a month ago, and it seems like things are really split on this subject.
http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/235304-sprint-4g-commercial-samsun...
I'm of the opinion that at this point they simply need to get new hardware to the market pronto, 4G or not. However, falling behind in the smartphone arms race is treading on dangerous ground. Yes they now have the backing of HP, but even with that, Palm needs to really push their brand as cutting edge hardware wise to go along with their revolutionary OS. If the public isn't awed by the hardware, they simply won't fall for a Palm based on the OS. Nature of the beast. Look at the press the Evo is getting. Sure, it's running Android. So are a ton of other phones. What sets it apart, and why people are hyped to buy it, is because of the hardware. Palm needs to do the same and get their OS to the front of the pack with killer hardware specs. Plus, I'm greedy and want webOS on an Evo-like device. That's really why I want this to come out. =)
Personally, I'd rather see voice dialing and no more "Too Many Cards" errors. What good will a 4G radio do you if your location doesn't have 4G towers?
The 4G can wait until there is more coverage, but the lack of voice dialing and Too Many Cards are starting to get no my nerves.
Personally, for me, Voice Dialing has never once mattered, but I accept that to some it's vital. Stil, my suspicion is that most feature demands are wanted by only a minority of users.
The "Too Many Cards" error, on the other hand, is a major bug that kills the webOS experience and needs squashing.
+1 colonel Kernel I fully agree. I had a phone with voice dialing before. Used it only a handful of times. I don't miss it at all.
now voice dictating for texts or emails..... That's ineresting but once again only a niche thing.
I'm in an area that won't see 4g for quite sometime so I am not losing any sleep about that.
Let me know when 4G hits everywhere.. then I'll be pissed I don't have a 4G WebOS phone.
I'd love to have access to 4G but frankly, it's not gonna happen for a long while. And when it does happen, I'll be able to have access to a surplus of different 4G capable phones.
ok I live here in Chicago that's had 4G for some time now and have had the chance to use it on laptops seeing that's the only way you could use it in 4G areas. It's nice but it's not running much faster then the existing Sprint and Verizon 3G services right now.
As for a company like Clear wire not mentioning the Palm Pre doesn't surprise me much. What does surprise me is Clearwire reps do NOT mention Sprint nor acknowlage they are partners. It made me laugh when I asked a rep about them and Sprint and he quickly changed subjects said it was 2 different services and Sprint is no concern to him. So this being said it just seems like both sides don't know entirely what the other is doing. Or it could of been just a sales rep tryin to peddle some Clearwire usb modems because lets face it Sprint here sells those too so in a way they are competeing against eachother for laptop users. Too many roosters in this henhouse already.
The reason why I say it doesn't surprise me about Clearwire also not knowing I'd there would be a WebOS device is they don't have access to all of Sprints info as seeing they are 2 separate branches. That's like the Jon Rubinstein talking about some new computers in the pipeline for HP. They will only know limited info.
If Jon Rubenstein is in fact keeping the new Palm device or devices under secrecy (like he used to do with other Apple employees.) Then the mysterious C40 or what other device/devices Palm has in mind probally will not be open knowlage to Sprint until right before launch or they had Sprint sign a confidentiality agreement not to release any information except for registering the device in their inventory system.
Wouldn't be the first time a company has done the confidentiality contract game. ESPECIALLY with how fast the mobile market is going at this moment. It's like Android is crapping out a new phone Once and sometimes twice a month and shows no sign of letting up. Their OS is getting more popular then the iphone because they are absolutely saturating the market. Can't beat iphone or Palm with quality then beat them in quantity and saturate the market so much when people think smartphones the name Android comes to mind cause at this rate of a device drop blitz they are doing by this time next year there will be close to 50different smart phones available. 2 from Palm 1 from Apple, 2-3 from Blackberry, a few WinMo devices......the rest... Android devices.
however with that many devices out there being made by a variety of companies, with different chipsets, different screen sizes and resolutions the AndroidOS is going to be so fragmented that the Android phones will die as fast as they flooded the market. They are their own worse enemy right now.
But back to Topic... Palm devices were probally not mentioned because they either A) don't have the authorization to mention it or B) Palms holding out on giving them any specs or info because they know us tech geeks will pick apart service providers systems looking for the info we crave. Be it release dates or new hardware.
If in fact Palm does have stuff lined up which they have suggested to. Then they have to keep tight lipped about it so competitiors don't have too early of a head start to one up Palm. Heck it just happened to the Nexus one technology is moving that fast. 5months and that technology is dated and both Verizon and Sprint dropped it before it was even released on those 2 carriers.
Where do you live in Chicago? If you are in the "burbs", the download rate is a little slower but it does catch up with time as it expands out. Saying the 4G service is no different compared to the 3G Sprint/Verizon service is exaggerating it a lil, no? I live in Philly and the 3G Sprint download rate is about 1mbps. With 4G, I'm hitting 3 to 8 mbps. That's a huge leap.
live in a burb work all over the city and have tried it all over the city and surrounding areas. I didn't say it was the same I did mention it was a little faster.. However I want to know what Philly is doing different because what I have heard is all the other cities that have 4G Sprint right now are reporting the same thing speed wise I have noticed here in Chicago and that's not a huge speed difference right now.
However people in Philly are reporting a huge difference in speed. The only thing I can think of is maybe not as many people are using the 4G in Philly opposed to here in Chicago which is one of the largest cities in the united states.
hey at least I'm not saying what I heard someone say the other day on a podcast on why Phillys 4G was operating faster then Chicago or Vegas.. They said it's cause the network is not getting as much use cause no one can afford it in Philly. Think that was said on Twit.. To or by a co-host visiting from Philly.
at anyrate WiMax isn't 100% yet and I can't wait until it is and I can get Philly speed on my 4G here in Chicago. Lol
While I would love to get 4G in the next WebOS phone, I doubt it will happen, at least at first. Frankly, it doesn't make sense for them to have done it, especially since it was likely designed before the merger.
Palm did not have the engineering resources (and won't for a little while yet) to waste on adding 4G hardware when it would be used by a small fraction of the user base on one single carrier.
They're worried about making great hardware that will work on every major CDMA and GSM carrier. Maybe they would come back and refresh the next phone with 4G after they've released the 3G versions all over the world. Clear/Sprint WiMax is a very niche market.
I hope I'm wrong and we get a badass piece of hardware with 4G available. I'd buy it in a minute, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll be happy if they put out a well built 3G phone to go with their great OS.
i just want my FLASH !!!
BYE BYE to all those bandwagons!! BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
better yet, go buy an iphone 4g with multitasking.. hahahahahah
i love my pre.. and i'm happy with any next WebOS
I think it's slim for ANY new Palm phone in '10.
Sprint is really blasting 4G but it's only good on a Sprint phone.
Palm needs a good device minus th 4G that other carriers can pick up.
Seriously, Palm should not launch the Pre on AT&T and instead give Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T the C40.
all at once spread out in like 6month
all at once or spread out in like 6month
"Seriously, Palm should not launch the Pre on AT&T and instead give Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T the C40."
Clearly that isn't going to happen.
Before HPalm comes out with anything new they need to fix what they have. I love my Pr
This is a first gen OS. I think your expectations are just a tad too high. No other smart phone OS had all their current functionality at launch! It was 2 years before the iPhone saw video recording and 9 months for WebOS. WebOS had copy and paste at launch the Iphone didn't. When you say the iPhone does things that the Pre doesn't that is the case with all phones. For example, multitasking in WebOS' has no competition right now. It is difficult for all the features to be implemented especially with limited resources. I think Palm has done a fantastic job with what they have. bottom line if you haven't seen the "wow" in WebOS YET, I think you need to move on to another platform. Once their make sure you write back and tell us how perfect they are.
4g is a must if only to show that Palm/HP is a serious player in the smartphone market.
The next Palm phone should have specs that equal or surpass the EVO.
I agree with yoshiaka13. That was a good comment.
thanks messiah143
moving on..thanks palm..will never buy hp/palm phone..going to blackberry for simplicity that works...
Enjoy!
A poll like this on a WebOS-centric site isn't terribly useful. The large percentage of Sprint WebOS users will obviously skew it. Do you really advocate that HP+Palm make the same misstep and launch their newest flagship product with technology only available on Sprint? Sticking with Sprint was a horrible decision the first time, now it's just utter suicide.
How can 4G matter at this point? The only carrier that claims to have it (with very limited coverage) is Sprint...the SMALLEST carrier. I don't see many manufacturers scrambling all over themselves to implement 4G. It's just not a factor right now. Please don't try to force Palm to waste resources on Sprint.
I wouldn't call Sprint the smallest. It's number 3. Don't forget that it's got Nextel as well.VerizonAT&TSprintT Mobile
is Sprint really the smallest carrier? Cool I'm elite then! Lets think about this. Verizon and Sprint have the most stable networks out of the top 4. You cannot deny AT&T is getting bogged down especially with data thanks to iphone which makes them get slooooow at times. And T-Mobile? They may have alot of people but T-Mobile is mainly a feature phone company who just in the last year got their 3G up to sped. Yheyre a little behind.
Also it was just released Verizon is number 1 in customer service guess who number 2 is?? Sprint is second. Just because Sprint is small doesn't mean a thing. Palm up until the HP thing was also the little guy. Yet you like Palm.
Verizon is controlling (hows your GPS doing lately on the Pre Plus by the way) and hard to negotiate with. Sprint is virtually the same coverage and reliability (thats almost) and number 2 in customer service without the extra costs for services or control issues.
So if you were Palm wanted to release a bigger faster device why not showcase on Sprint whose 4G WiMaxwill be on phones before the 4G LTE on the other carriers. It'll also help boost sales of the 4G LTE Palm devices if they do a good job cause everyone will get a chance to see what Palm/HP can do with 4G and get people anxious for it when 4G LTE is ready...
just a thought
I think the reason clearwire didn't announce the new Palm phone as 4G could be because of the uncertainties surrounding the HP/Palm merger. Though the release date might go as planned, it probably won't and Clearwire wouldn't want to jump the gun. I still believe it's coming, and it's 4G. If it's not 4G, big deal. The battery consumption is bad enough on the Pre, and 3G speed is still good enough for me.
AT&T doesn't have 4G service = No iPhone with 4G/LTE speeds. It's a 4th Generation iPhone, not actually 4G. Front-facing webcam proves nothing, because AT&T won't even Start deploying their LTE network until next year, at best.
Service availabiltity simply doesn't matter. To appear cutting edge, Palm needs a 4G device for the bullet point alone.
As for the likely hood of that happening, I don't know. The timing seems decidedly bad. Before the merger was announced I don't think the R&D dollars were worth risking. In this nebulous time inbetween the announcement and the completion, Palm can spend more of the money it has, but I don't know if HP is willing or even legally allowed to sign any checks for Palm. And even after the merger is completed and money can flow freely, I fear July is too late a date to ramp up R&D investment for this coming tech cycle.
All the above being said, Palm needs new hardware of almost any kind. The five months from the Pre's announcement to its launch has created ambiguity regarding its true age. Is it almost a one and half years old or just under a year? Being somewhere in the middle kind of puts it somewhere in the middle.
About a month ago 4g wouldn't have mattered with new hardware,but seeing my city has been added to 4g in the last list of cities with 4g it is need for my next phone purchase which is looking like an Evo. My palm pre will not go away seeing sprint lets us do street swaps whenever we want though.
I still as well think sprint, HP/palm will announce a new 4G phone for late summer/fall season. I'm pretty sure minus the rumors that Rubenstien and the palm internals have already been working on a new device for quite sometime. So assuming acouple of weeks after not just the AT&T release of the pixi (06/06) but also the EVO and iphone HD, sometime the end of June 1st wk of july they will announce a new Palm device 4G for end of august early september.
I would have to agree.
palm needs a 4g phone i'm think of getting an ATT pre plus and sprint the EVO
i'm confused by the idea that the next palm doesnt need 4g. thats like saying webos doesnt need apps. a 4g radio in a palm phone will give it a checkmark the competitors dont have, and the success of the phone would help expidite the spread of sprints 4g network.
sprint is the only one barely using 4G.
right, and if more ppl start using sprint 4g (more demand), sprint will be forced, and have the capital to expand it into more area. If Palm is on the forefront of this spread, it will be profitable for them.
But from a financial standpoint on a desperate company-or now division of a company-that is extremely risky. The money poured into R&D from only for a failing phone company that might bust is a huge risk. That 4G phone could only be use on one failing network.
Its like the hydrogen car ordeal. If a car maker pours billions of dollars into the technology, but theres little refilling stations, then theyre not going to make much money.
Honda can afford this b/c of their deep deep pockets, and their many many vehicles already in production.
Palm has only 2 Palm pre phones out.
If they their 3rd phone on a niche product thats only on one carrier, there are setting themselves up to fail, just like if Kia 20 years ago made a hydrogen car.
This article is absolute balls. 4G is virtually irrelevant outside of the U.S., and many places within it. Remember the race for 3G? No, I don't either. I just texted and called as usual, and surfed the net on wi-fi at work or at home, or used GPRS. I never turn the 3G on in my Pre, it hammers the battery, and my mail is still always there to be read. What would 4G do to it? Absolute and utter balls.
It doesn't matter if it has 5G if the hardware isn't up to spec - Apple have proven that three times already. The original iPhone didn't have 3G when all its competitors did. It hardly died the death. Get a good new device out that people can get behind and promote, people including the media and HP. Forget about trying to match the EVO or whatever.
agree highly
for me an expanded 3g access is better than 4g someplaces
Or the moment, none of the U.S. Carriers have substantial 4G coverage. Sprint's making steady but slow progress through Clearwire, AT&T's coverage is more pathetic than their @ launch data coverage for the original iPhone and Verizon only announced a 4G build out a few months ago.
so right now the capability in smartphone's a bonus not a must have. Most people won't be in a 4G area most of the time. So long as Palm/HP pushes out a 4G device by mid-2011 they should be alright.
here is an article from engadget. http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/05/clearwire-promises-clear-branded-htc-...
per the article these are Clear branded phones that will be released. These are not Sprint phones. My brother in law works for Sprint here in Middle Tennessee and he has even mentioned that Sprint has several 4g phones that will be released this year. He has no idea what brands or models though.
I think the article here on precentral is slightly misleading since it is referring only to Clear branded phones and not Sprint branded phones.
Got to have a 4g webos
4G is a waste, and not needed at all... what WebOS needs is better hardware, i love my Pre but still can't recommend it to other people.
just got the Incredible for my wife, and wow.... it's amazing. if somebody would take the Incredible hardware and throw WebOS on it, it would stomp everything... hands down.
until then, dl/web speed means nothing when your hardware is sub-par.
Would having a 4G chip in the phone really hurt? To me any new phone that does not have 4G is sub par.
That's like saying any car that can't do 180 mph is sub par even though we live in a world of 65-70 mph limits and heavy traffic.
Clearly HP has more money to spend than Palm ever did, but if there is a cost threshhold they don't want to exceed, I would rather they limit hardware to more practical things like memory, screen size, processor speed, and battery size.
just curious do you even know what 4G is? It deals with your internet connection and speed. It's a modem. So how would that make any phone subpar?
If you stripped the EVO of it's 4G radio slapped a 3G radio in it the phone and it's features would still run the same speed just a couple mbps slower while online or using apps that require internet connection. The only time you will notice is if your streaming movies, or using the ultimate in battery drainer..flash.
yet the EVO would run just as fast for all it's other functions. 4G has nothing to do with the processor chip speed or OS speed.
so explain to me how any phone without 4G is subpar?
The next Spring WebOS device MUST be 4G. The general public is going nuts for anything labeled 4G. People in my city keep drooling about the iPhone 4G and it's not even 4G!!! People in my city also keep drooling about HTC EVO 4G and I live in Sacramento...where there won't be any 4G coverage in 2010!!! I think it would be a missed opportunity not to offer a 4G device...even if the only reason is to trick the general public into trying WebOS.
I heard Modesto is getting 4G.
As others have said, it would be a big mistake if they released a WiMax 4G device this year. They would be limiting themselves to Sprint, and Clearwire seems to be non-commital on wimax with a possible move to LTE eventually. Internationally it would also be a loser. They limited themselves to sprint last year with an exclusive device and see where it got them.
They need a device out this year, but 3G is good enough. Before HP there is no way they would have been an early adopter to Wimax.
LTE is not too far off, phones coming online by next summer. It's going to be on most cell providers, worldwide.
Don't waste time and resources on a niche market. Palm needs to make a provider-agnostic phone next.
I live in a WiMax area (Raleigh, NC) and would absolutely want 4G. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm using Clear for broadband and mobile broadband.
We've been down that road before with launching on Sprint, haven't we? Let's not make that mistake again, PLEASE!
ok so Palm needs to announce 4G capable phone coming.. Eliminates perceived weakness... Then they can ship non 4G till enough carrirer coverage available & offer tradein/upgrade to switch to 4G phone in 1yr or?...
in the mean time I totally agree with others..."fix the issues" including major features we all need.
Half of you people are delusional. Around 30 cities have 4G. I think the majority of America can live without it. I'd rather have Sprint improve its current coverage so I can stop roaming in my own freaking house.
No big deal to me, I am with VZ anyhow and just renewed with the PrePlus. I am not that impatient for new stuff.
Palm could make a 20terabyte, 5G, 21megapixel, 8000mh battery and still not do well selling it.
paper stats don't mean *too* much. It's all about making it work flawlessly and streamlined.
the iPhone for example-it had so-so performance numbers and wasn't even a smartphone-but all the little things were taken care it, there were no seems.
when you're looking to buy a tool for a job, you probably won't get the newest latest thing with a million functions. Why? B/c it takes a bit to iron it all out and make it reliable, easy to use, and seemless.
Webos is pretty simple. It's pretty easy to use. But it's not seemless and the hardware isn't seemless either. You can tell where software starts and hardware begins.
Palm doesn't need the fastest highest resolution longest lasting prettiest phone out there, they just need a product that has little problems.
FOCUS ON QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY!
For the sake of keeping afloat, they need to pump out a device with 4G. They need to one up the iphone (for a short time anyway) and keep pace with Android.
At the same time, and equally critical, they need to make sure the hardware is rock solid. I just bought my wife an iphone last week (she's on ATT and has been begging for it) and the hardware is just amazing. Sure I'm a Pre die-hard and couldn't imagine life w/o true multitasking, but the awesome hardware almost offsets having to close and open and close and reopen apps.
As it stands now, we have people already licking their chops and ready to jump ship wehn this EVO comes out.
last thought.. Has anyone even thought of whatever kick ass new 4G Palm hardware that is released on Sprint could be released overseas by swapping the 4G radio for the 3G radio? Just as the cdma version was changed to GSM for over seas.. It's just the radio/modem in the phone. Not the actual hardware itself.
it's like having 2 identical laptops one with DSL and one with cable internet.. I could be wrong.
... Maybe Palm will release a non 4g device on Sprint... Then upgrade it to LTE for AT&T & Verizon. It's not like you haven't bent us Sprint users over once before ...
(double post)
I thought the the Launch Pre should have had 4G.
If Palm designs the next phone right, it can have a 4G module for Sprint now, and an LTE module for Verizon later.
This next palm phone needs to surpass all the other phones on the market spec wise. 4G, big screen, nice real keyboard, fast processor, front and rear cameras, etc.
Voice recording. PIM. Synch with computer. Document editing. Less sluggish. More apps. Less dependence on the cloud (what is so freaking great about the freaking cloud, anyway?). Bigger screen & higher resolution. Ditch the hard keyboard and go with an embedded soft keyboard. More customizable. Cameras on both sides. Better GPS. SD slot. More memory. Longer battery life.
And I'm sure I can think of some more. 4G isn't on the list.
news flash almost all of your top smartphones use cloud service. Palm a little less then others. The cloud eases up on memory usage on your phone. Instead of storing alot of data on your phone, some goes to a cloud that your phone can retreave and leaves your memory free for more apps or games or music.. Whaatever
also better contact and calendar backup if say you break your phone or it gets stolen.
News Flash: There are very good reasons for not wanting to be hooked to the cloud, and privacy is a big one. I also really (I mean really, really!) liked synching with my desktop/laptop, so I could have all the data everywhere. Right now it's a pain. No one is saying you can't have cloud backup, but it would be a teriffic idea to let me choose where in the cloud the data gets backed up to. (Hint: my machine someplace...)
While you're at it you might also consider that I can use the memory on my phone the way I want to and use it without having to rely on connections to cell or other networks.
The point is that different people want different things. I want control of my data. Me. My data. Get it?
you want desktop syncing with no cloud service etc etc.. Ok no one is stopping you from buying a non cellular PDA.
as for privacy issues and some cloud services I have the same concern. However Blackberry uses cloud service and they have the best security. If you are that business minded and need all this security then you want a Blackberry.
I'm a fan of Palm and WebOS but I also believe get a device that is best suited for what you need it for. Every smart phone out there has it's own pros and cons. The Pre is best suited for what I need it for which is alot of multitasking while streaming music and I don't have a complex calendar that gets synced with my computer. My Pre gets calendar syncing OTA.
So lets take a deep breath relax and ease up on the attitude. Obvious your scared of new technology it's ok. It will be alright. Oh and get yourself a Blackberry... I think someone said it best up a little higher he was going to Blackberry cause simplicity sometimes is better. It's ok that just may be what you need to. Because it's all about you and your data and you have control issues yes I get it. Calm down wow.
...short and simple:
The next H/Palm smartphone [[MUST]] be "4G Capable" in order to compete w/ the new generation of mobile hardware being released Fall/Summer 2010.
I think people don't realize that 4G and LTE will be more common by early as 2011, so why wouldn't you want a smartphone who can run in 3G then when 4G hits switch over? I would. With concerns to problems that may arise due to different carriers and whatnot, having a 3G/4G capable smartphone shouldn't be a problem because default radio will be 3G - unless you're in a 4G city then you'll be able to default 4G.
The main point:
Having 4G will not hurt the next H/Palm device at all - as long as it supports dual modes...well it's actually 3 modes (1X, 3G, 4G). With the 4G capabilities it will give the phone the edge point blank.
"...the world's first Palm webOS powered 4G HP smartphone!"
Unless the next WebOS phone has a 10000000000Mah battery, I don't want 4g. You know these new 4g radios will completely rape current battery technology.
That is not true at all. I heard the HTC EVO runs longer than the Palm Pre while using 4G.
I am no prophet. Nor do I have Palm inside information. But wouldn't it be logical to follow Palms pattern and think along the lines they would in order to get a better idea as to the type of phone they will produce?
Think about it. CES 2009 Ruby presented the Pre to the world. He mentioned that the Pre was the first mobile phone with TI's new OMAP 3 Platform. Why? Because of it's laptop capabilities. With WebOS multitasking - it seems that was the best processor to choose. We now know that the OMAP 3 processor has speed (800MHz Kernel) but Palm opted for slower clock speed.
Now wouldn't it make more sense for Palm to continue their relationship with TI rather than move their business to Qualcomm (snapdragon). Texas Instrument unveiled their new OMAP 4 platform at CES 2010, with killer specs such as 1Ghz+, Dual core processing (Fitting for the World's best multitasking smartphone heh?)and both cores run at 1Ghz each, 20 Megapixel Camera resolution processing (SLR like imaging), 1080p HD Video in/out capabilities, Process up to three screens simultaneous, DLP Pico Projection Capabilities (DLP is exclusive TI technology) and is 3G/4G ready.
Call me stupid - But this seems like Palms best choice for their next WebOS phone. Palm knows that their customers want more speed and processing power. The OMAP 4 delivers that and much much more. Whether or not they enable all the OMAP 4 features is another subject altogether. But it is certainly possible.
That's my take on this new WebOS device. Will it be 4G? Maybe. Maybe not. If OMAP 4 is in - then I think Palm is going 4G. And even if you don't have 4G connectivity in your area, 3G should work just fine on the new WebOS phone.
On another note. I wish HP doesn't release the Slate with WebOS. Instead they should take Lenovo's path and make a Hybrid Laptop. An HP laptop with it's own OS (Windows 7)and own Processor (Intel i7) and then a removable screen (hidden slate) with it's own OS (WebOS) and it's own on board processor (OMAP 4). I just hope Lenovo doesn't have a patent on that idea. Am I the only one drooling over the idea? :)
just to point it out, it's entirely possible that htc is building the next palm phone. just sayin
I really don't care if it has 4g or not... I am in Shreveport LA, one of the larger city's in Louisiana and they still don't have 3g for sprint!!!! They are saying they wont be getting 3g until Oct!!!! So with that said, Palm SHOW ME THE HARDWARE!!!!
*waits for the complaints 6 months down the line saying how 4G coverage sucks*
There are some people who don't even have 3G coverage in their area still, who cares about 4G. Until I know and see the 4G coverage and performance in my area I couldn't care less, not to mention how much more I'd have to pay for 4G coverage. 3G suits me for my needs for now. I'm not uploading videos daily. 3G is more than enough for photo uploads which I do much more often.
HI all, I live 45 miles NW or Orlando. Now I know Sprint just added Orlando, to it's latest list, for 4G service by next year some time. However, I doubt it will include my area. We do not even get Orlando TV, without cable, (even before digital with an exterior TV antenna). It certainly isn't b/c it is too mountainous her in FL, LOL! Therefore, I will worry about 4g later on!
I also am not so sure that I would want to own a 4g phone, yet. I would rather they work out the bugs first!
I could care less about 4g, I don't know about anyone else but, i'm not paying more for service.
secondly, I can connect to wireless just about anywhere I go. To me i'll save some money everymonth and still enjoy fast internet via wireless ::shrugs::
If palm doesnt come up with a 4g palm pre im switching to the sprint evo. Even though i love the palm pre, the evo is faster.
I am in southern California. So, I doubt 4G will get here anytime soon. And when it does, it will be in limited areas. I predict that 3G will finally be replaced with 4G in about 5 years.
Of course, this would mean another radio would have to be installed. The Pre has such a short battery life with three radios let alone a fourth one.
Los Angeles is getting their 4G cells by the end of the year so you should be good to roll =)
Just a note to everyone who plans on kicking their old Pre to the curb just because it doesn't have a 4G version out right away...make sure you have coverage where you live. If you don't, you're not getting it regardless of what phone you use.
I would love to have a 4G phone, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the $10 extra/month that Sprint wants. However, if Palm can produce new hardware that rivals the EVO - without 4G - then I'M IN! I'm talking about producing it next month at approx the 1 year anniv of the Pre too. I'm not waiting until the fall. If Palm fails on this account I'll be jumping over to Android and hoping that Palm brings a sweet WebOS device out so I can jump back.
Two words: 3D Television...
Is it worth having RIGHT NOW, when all you have are very limited uses for it at a substantial premium?
I, for one, love my Pre. I don't have a Pre+, and I'm on Sprint. I'm sure a 4G webOS device is in the works, but I would prefer that it isn't rushed to the market with all kinds of 'wishitdids'. I would rather have it done right the first time, then no one (not iPhoneys, Crackberries, or Androidekas) can doubt it's superiority...
BTW, I live in Atlanta, have Clear & it is amazingly fast.
Two words: 3D Television...
Is it worth having RIGHT NOW, when all you have are very limited uses for it at a substantial premium?
I, for one, love my Pre. I don't have a Pre+, and I'm on Sprint. I'm sure a 4G webOS device is in the works, but I would prefer that it isn't rushed to the market with all kinds of 'wishitdids'. I would rather have it done right the first time, then no one (not iPhoneys, Crackberries, or Androidekas) can doubt it's superiority...
BTW, I live in Atlanta, have Clear & it is amazingly fast.
Two words: 3D Television...
Is it worth having RIGHT NOW, when all you have are very limited uses for it at a substantial premium?
I, for one, love my Pre. I don't have a Pre+, and I'm on Sprint. I'm sure a 4G webOS device is in the works, but I would prefer that it isn't rushed to the market with all kinds of 'wishitdids'. I would rather have it done right the first time, then no one (not iPhoneys, Crackberries, or Androidekas) can doubt it's superiority...
BTW, I live in Atlanta, have Clear & it is amazingly fast.
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the thought that anyone who thinks that 4G service is going to roll out in their area soon is smoking crack. I've heard the announcements time and again over the years and they are ALWAYS extremely late on the service upgrades. If you don't have it now, lots of luck in the near future!
That said, even with 4G service I am unclear that it is worth the extra $40 per month including tethering that they are charging for the EVO 4G. Turned me right off on that phone. I guess Sprint is trying to do an AT&T iPhone pricing structure. Charge more for the service if you want to own a hot phone.
I'd be ecstatic if they went with the ideas jarobusa mentioned for the hardware, OMAP 4 platform with 1Ghz+, Dual core processing and both cores run at 1Ghz each, 20 Megapixel Camera resolution processing (SLR like imaging), 1080p HD Video in/out capabilities, Process up to three screens simultaneous, DLP Pico Projection Capabilities (DLP is exclusive TI technology) and is 3G/4G ready. 3G is all I need for now but give it room to grow.
It would also be nice if HP spent some money to "convince" a number of programmers of the most popular smartphone applications to get their applications out for WebOS. Don't need 20,000 apps, just get the top 100 - 200 that are out for the iPhone / Android platforms. They paid 1.2 billion for WebOS / Palm, what's a few million more to get the best apps on the market.
This is why I believe Palm should move toward a 4G enable device:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/12/sprints-htc-evo-4g-put-through-its-ba...
It's all about the hype, it doesn't matter if you need 4G right now. If people perceive the iPhone's, EVO's, etc, hardware as superior it doesn't matter that WebOS IS the superior platform. When you match superior hardware along with WebOS' superior platform you have an even more compelling argument.
I don't need a phone that can access a practically non-existent network. Additionally I thing LTE will be THE 4G network, WIMAX is only a niche.
I am patiently waiting with no qualms for the next webOS device.
I got the best phone already. Palm pr
Lets try that again. the URL is http://now.sprint.com/nownetwork/4G/#/product_overdrive?
ECID=MA:AB:20100222:MBB:FVE:DEV:V2:728x90
Perhaps the new device will be called th Gypsy?
Go to the following URL and Mouse over the picture of the EVO in the bottom right hand corner. The word GYPSY pops up, not EVO...
http://now.sprint.com/nownetwork/4G/#/product_overdrive?
ECID=MA:AB:20100222:MBB:FVE:DEV:V2:728x90
I almost never comment, but I work, live, and commute in a 4G area. I get almost daily Clearwire letters in the mail, but I am happy with FIOS.
I have own(ed) 2 Sprint Pre's. I don't need 4G, but damn it, if the tech is available why isn't a next gen device including it. I hope that the lack of information is because of an 'Apple-esqe' NDA with all the people involved with Palm C40.
Glad to see that most people think it is important thing to have in a next gen device, because lets face it. We all love webOS and we all know the mobile industry is about keeping up with the Jones's....
Palm, Sprint, and HP, do you really want Sprint Reps in the stores compaing the EVO4G to the C40 if it is without 4G? I dont' think so.
I would go for a Dell Lightning type device sporting a Beceem WiMax/LTE chip.
honestly for $10 extra i don't really need it. 4G is slightly better then 3D to me. better cause i do want faster speeds i just don't care much now. 3D i don't care about now or later and don't even want.
I want to change my vote since they plan to charge 10 dollars extra a month for 4g phones even if you don't have 4g in your area. So i hope the next webos device won't have 4g