webOS to get mic, camera API, faster services, plenty more by fall | webOS Nation

webOS to get mic, camera API, faster services, plenty more by fall 230

by Dieter Bohn Tue, 27 Apr 2010 9:54 pm EDT


We're fresh off the Palm Developer Day Keynote and a crazy-good interview - both with Ben Galbraith and Dion Almaer of Palm. We'll have a full write up of the interview on Monday, but we wanted to hit up the big developer news from this morning's keynote for those who missed the liveblog.

Though Palm's dynamic duo didn't say what version number we're looking at, they did suggest that 'by fall' we should see the features they described today. Primarily we're talking about new APIs and tools for developers - the main new user-facing feature is an updated version of the App Catalog.

After the break, a preview of some of what's coming in the next version of webOS.

New APIs

The easiest bits to understand right away is that Palm is offering a few new APIs to developers for richer apps. The big one that most developers have been asking for is an API for proper, low-level microphone and camera access. This means that apps like Shazam and bar-code readers will finally be possible on webOS in the SDK.

Palm is also going to offer media indexer, which will make it easier for 3rd party developers to create music and video apps. 

There will be new crypto/security APIs and also support for Bonjour/Zeroconf. The latter will make it easier for webOS devices to autodiscover devices in a network - think easier co-op or competitive gaming and even printer discovery.

Finally, Palm is going to offer a Bluetooth Serial Port Profile. It's a little unclear how much will be possible here, but at the very least we're finally starting to smell the possibility of Bluetooth keyboard support. We can't say that's coming for sure, but if nothing else Bluetooth SPP should allow 3rd party developers to add support for an expanded list of Bluetooth accessories.

New Javascript Background Services

Next up, Palm is significantly expanding and improving their background services, switching them from java to javascript. What this will mean for users and developers is that apps that need to crunch a significant amount of data will be able to do it quite a fit faster and easier. As they mentioned in the keynote, a lot of stuff that was previously only available to Homebrew app developers will now be possible in official apps.  

There are a bunch of new services too - File I/O especially was a favorite with the developer crowd here today.

db8: faster storage and cloud service sync

Next up is db8, which is a new backend interface for apps to store and sync data on device. What's awesome about db8? Primarily three things:

  1. Performance storing and accessing data should be significantly better (especially with the new javascript services). 
  2. It's 'pluggable' on the backend for your choice of storage methods
  3. It offers fast, simple, and reliable sync services to syncing locally stored data with a CouchDB database in the cloud.

Yeah, it's a little nerdy, but the bottom line is that apps that need to sync a bunch of data (like, say, the email client) will now be able to not only use background javascript services to shuffle data around more quickly on the device, but db8 to more quickly sync that local database to the cloud.

HTML5: More speed, more awesome, more standard

Ben and Dion spent quite a bit of time looking at the stupendous new stuff coming with HTML5 and while some of it isn't necessarily on-tap for the next version of webOS, it's clear that Palm is not only committed to including but excited about some of the new features in HTML5. Hardware-accelerated CSS transitions are a go, which will really speed up animations and transitions in webOS. 

One thing that's definitely more of a ways off: webGL graphics - but it's on the radar. 

Mojo Core: easier web app porting

Another new tool: "Mojo Core." The idea here is that Palm is going to make it significantly easier to add webOS-specific functionality to existing web apps. Instead of rewriting the web app virtually from scratch to support Palm's Mojo bits, developers can add Mojo services like geolocation, local storage, app cache, and even user interface elements with literally just a few lines of code in their existing web app. The web app will then be able to use those mojo bits if it detects it's on a webOS device and gracefully ignore them when it's not.

We should also add that cross-platform web heroes PhoneGap are here. They're committed to working with Palm and Palm's making sure that PhoneGap's work will happen on webOS.

Improved App Catalog

Palm couldn't go into much detail on this, but they did show a screenshot of an improved App Catalog interface. We're seeing a better way to sort through Hot, Paid, Free, and New apps separately from app categories.  Here's to hoping that improved search on the backend will come too.

Wrapping up

We're pumped about the new APIs and we're really pumped at what we expect are going to be significant speed improvements with the new CSS animation + javascript + db8 improvements. Palm is optimizing and speeding up webOS on virutally every front while staying committed to web standards in a way will warm the heart of even the most-jaded mobile or web developer.

We were hoping that Palm would break their radio silence with regard to the Mojo Messaging Service for push notifications, but sadly no dice on that front. It's no surprise, though, as Palm wasn't looking to make major OS announcements here, just to let developers know what sort of APIs and tools they can look forward to.

For those stressed about DataViz and DocsToGo, hybrid PDK/SDK apps aren't quite ready to rock yet, but we should be a matter of weeks away from a developer beta that supports PDK apps from independent developers.

Overall, the main thing to remember is that Palm is heavily committed to future-looking HTML standards and making the full SDK as fast and powerful as 'native' PDK and native apps on other platforms.


Commented on this in the liveblog, but really sounds like webOS 2.0 to me.

Hopefully Palm can stick around for long enough to re-launch this with a new high-end device (OMAP4 / Cortex A9 in the fall? Wishful thinking, most likely, but I'd love that.)

I am soooo hoping that they do that too... pull a first for OMAP4 just like they did with OMAP3...

I hope they don't go with snapdragon. The current Pre has better graphical power than snapdragon phones.

A Pre II running a dual core OMAP4 on a 45nm or smaller process and an 1800 - 2000 mAh Li-polymer battery sounds yummy...

Few things:
1) I hope palm gets the dual core A-9 cortex and NOT the single core A-9
2)Considering phone screen wont get too big, please place atleast a 1500mAh battery.
3) Does CSS acceleration means, GUI enhanced UI?
4) Need support for webGL
5) CORE MOJO should have few simple things like back swipe, forward swipe which are essential part of web OS and palm pre.
6) please put 4G is the next phone
7) Cloud services need multiple time points and maybe limited user access
8) Push needs a lot of work and palm being so small, it may not come till 2011.
9) Palm need to partner with people who are already have products, like double twist and have it installed from the start

To 1) Well, as far as I know, none of the manufacturers are currently making single-core A9 based designs. Even still, with an out-of-order CPU architecture, the single-core should be much better for multitasking than the in-order A8.

In a nutshell, for the Cortex A9 crowd we've got the 800MHz dual core "Orion" due for mass production in Q1 2011, a 1GHz single core "Pegasus" for Q4 2011, a 1GHz dual core "Hercules" for Q1 2012, and for sometime in 2012 / 2013, a 1.2GHz dual core "Draco" and quad core "Aquila

Those listed above are only Samsung's Cortex-A9 based designs.

There's also the TI OMAP4 series, which is a 720MHz dual-core A9, and a 1GHz dual-core A9.

Nvidia's Tegra 2 is also using a dual-core A9.

There's others, but those are the main ones.

Have no doubt that they will be around for then.

It is all great, but if there is no new hardware (faster/larger screen/more RAM/more Flash/better battery) this summer on Sprint, I might have to defect :(

I'm afraid I am with you. I am going to get a Windows Phone 7 device when they launch on Sprint. It's too bad that things are as they are for Palm. Ever since the 1.3.5 update, the phone has been quite usable. The things that the Pre does well, it does amazingly well. It falls far short in almost every other category however. My lone regret will the the money that I threw away on accessories.

Windows Phone 7? Have you been eating brain tumors for breakfast? What's next, starring in scat films?

Seriously, explain that.

I too am afraid that I, I ,I can't say it... I love my Pre, I just can't wait for palm to come out with something new. I mean, a year? come on palm. I just don't want to switch!

I agree as well. If no new hardware is announced this summer, I will go with the EVO 4G FTW.

LOL, you agree? You've been leaving since before Evo was announced. You've never owned a Pre and they dont even have Wimax/Evo in your country. You're a lightweight, antisocial sub-troll, with no interest in WebOS, yet you live in here like this place supports whatever addiction you're stricken with.

... another rabid dog defending the Pre. Ho hum.

Re-read my post weasel, I didn't say "boo" about the Pre.


I agree as well. If no new hardware is announced this summer, I will go with the EVO 4G FTW.

This is a developers conference and not the place to introduce new hardware.
The rollout of new APIs and programming tools is what this meeting is about.
The new WebOS hardware will come later.

That's the part that kind of mystifies, me, too. Why are people all in a huff that no new hardware was announced when this conference wasn't even about hardware?

So you can't wait 2 more months for some awesome Palm software/hardware? Welp, suit yourself... don't say we didn't tell you so... oh and I hope you and your future EVO will be happy, coz you're gonna be stuck with it for a little bit.

btw, the EVO comes with a side of fragmentation... hope that's to your taste...

You mean like the pre comes with a side of broken hardware and TMC errors?

kinda sounds like 2.0, but it definitely sounds like good news! :) Lets Go Palm!

Just speaking for myself... "Fall" is not soon enough for me.

I'm sick of Palm putting these vague dates out there and then delivering at the last possible second. I bet these features come out on the first day of Winter.

This industry moves way too fast nowadays for Palm to keep up. It's going to sting when I give up WebOS, because I think it's the best UI for mobile phones available right now, but I'm sick of being a 3rd class citizen. Android here I come, for better or worse.

I guess a silver lining is that Spring lets me upgrade every year, so maybe a year after I get the EVO Palm will have matured enough to be more relevant?

I doubt there will be much of a sting. Android is evolving.

The evolutions don't "flow up" universally. You have to wait for it to be altered to support your device. When 2.x comes out for a new device, if you're walking around with a 1.5 for example, you may be beyond the support range. If you have a less popular device, say the only Android wimax device (sold only in the US by the next to smallest carrier exclusively), what you see coming out of the box may be all you ever get. There may never be a single OS update for Evo, it may be alpha or beta until it gets tossed in a river because of O/S Android fragmentation. Enjoy!

To be fair, there are hacks to upgrade the OS even after your manufacturer moves on right? I do agree that HTC moves so quickly with their new hardware it's essentially dead to them after its released though...

Not aware of how strong the Android hack world is, espcially with Android being optimized/customized for individual devices. Looking through androidcentral, more people croning "I want 2.1 ..." than discussing hacks and self upgrades. New Android devices come out too fast to count, HTC or not, and each has a feature everybody has to have and can't wait for.

It's taking a while for the Hero/MyTouch/droid eris to get their updates, and they're all essentially the same device. Looks like Androids are more likely to be out of contract before getting setted on new O/S, and it probably will only take longer and longer as more an more devices are allow to very from the standard.

It all great, but I have to agree with crxssi. We need new hardware!!! The Sprint EVO 4G is looking really tempting right now, even though I'm not a fan of Android. I can't upgrade my phone until Sept 2010, if there is no new WebOS hardware, or at least an announcement by then, I may just have to pick up the EVO. I love WebOS but am starting to become annoyed by the hardware limitations and slow speed of my Pre.

just install the 800 mhz patch already and quit ur bitchin'. My pre runs fast as hell now and seems to be much more stable.

It is a replacement kernel, not a patch. I don't know about hostmatty, but I am already using the OC kernel (and have been for a while). Yes, it makes the phone considerably faster. But it does not address problems with memory, rebooting, screen size, kb, battery, etc.

And when 1.5 or whatever comes out, the kernel will be dead and we will have to wait some unknown time before someone can create a new OC kernel.

dnt forget in tha summer sprint will hav tha Pre+ so all these functions will be on tha +

ahem, if theyre gonna give ALL this away within a webOS update, you KNOW they have some new hardware coming along with it.
can you say webOS 2.0 + snap dragon + 4G = YES?

I can say that if Palm leads us on as long as they did with the original announcement of the Pre and the delivery of the Pre, they will have lost a LOT of customers.

I am a huge fan of WebOS- but my "fan"ness has limits.

While I agree that WEBOS was too incomplete and additional supplements are taking way too long, to date, I'm not aware of Palm missing any of their deadlines. Sure, they deliver stuff at the end of the stated interval, but so far, not yet late on things they were doing. So, "by fall" should mean by Sept 21. Long time off, but should be here before October. So I'll get a taste of it, WebOS 1.5? See what the hardware outlook is at that point. And see what the rest of the world has to offer. Prolly too early for a Nokia offer, Win7 should be stillborn, will Android be sexy enough by then? Cant see Blackberry having enough life, and I'll be due for an employer upgrade on BB by then. Good time to sit on my hands for a spell.

Speeding up WebOS is an absolute must. I had previously thought that (given their resources) the only way to do it was faster hardware. I'm glad to see that they're looking at software optimizations, too.

This news is exciting enough to put me on the fence about my anticipated emigration to the EVO 4G. IMHO development of WebOS is moving a *LOT* faster than any other mobile environment out there. I love the frequent software upates! Meanwhile, HTC Hero users have been waiting 6 mos for an update.

That said, a little nod in the hardware department wouldn't hurt my feelings. 1GHz, bigger screen, sturdier hardware combined with some of the improvements mentioned above would be all kinda win.

> Speeding up WebOS is an absolute must. I had previously thought that
> (given their resources) the only way to do it was faster hardware. I'm
> glad to see that they're looking at software optimizations, too.

And yet there is still zero mention of using the GPU for Luna. I would think that would be the FIRST step in trying to eek out more of the existing hardware, followed by selective overclocking. Neither will really help with screen size, under-sized RAM (non-plus), nor battery life. :(

Did you miss the part that says:

"Hardware-accelerated CSS transitions are a go, which will really speed up animations and transitions in webOS."

OOps, I think I did miss that part. I was so focused on the "Luna" or "GUI" keywords. Thanks for pointing that out.

Fall? Are they kidding?

Let's see, Sprint will give me a full rebate on updates on June and I'm supposed to wait until some date in the fall for an update that will contain features other phones have now?

Once again, Palm underwhelms when it needs to be firing on all cylinders.

As far as the webOS' multitasking feature, I got a "too many cards" error when running just one app yesterday, so it really does not multitask.

How about a reality check. The Pre is not selling well. Neither is the Pixi. Fix the memory issues and get the all of the updates talked about recently out by Memorial Day, at the very latest.

Unrealistic, you say? I say unrealistic for me to wait on Palm's slow schedule and pathetic management.

I agree, this is stuff that should have already been included! Two steps forward and four steps back. Announce new hardware Palm or the EVO will blow you by.........

BTW FOR THOSE WITH "TOO MANY CARD" ISSUES(who didn't see my help post in the tips/tricks forum 100x already) YES the phone is still MULTITASKING. just because you cant see it doesnt mean its not there. think about the last 5 or so free/beta apps you installed from preware or appscoop. i'd be willing to bet, from experience, that more than half of those apps use your gps position or some other "WEB OS = RUNS ON THE WEB = IF THE WEB IS ALWAYS ON (WHICH IS BASICALLY HOW YOUR PRE IS WORKING IN GENERAL) THEN THE APPS ARE ALWAYS ON = INVISIBLE MULTITASKING."

IE: i installed the smartrunner which is a great app for keeping logs of your workouts via gps tracking. then i tried to play glyder and got the "too many cards....." which has never happened before with that game. i'm a smart blonde so i went to the last app i installed and when i tapped the prefs it had a "log out" option. so i was logged in to that gps app for a few days w/o knowing it because i'm used to apps quitting when you swipe them away. 8GB of ram is plenty for those tiny apps. i've had over 50 installed at one time and didn't go over 2GB used so don't blame the ram for your problems flat out. try to find out where the ram-vamp is and decide if you really need it or just want it cuz its pretty and its free.

>8GB of ram is plenty for those tiny apps. i've had over 50 installed at >one time and didn't go over 2GB used so don't blame the ram for your >problems flat out.

If you think the Pre has 8GB of RAM, then I believe you are very confused.

There is not 8GB of RAM on any phone at this time. Most computers don't even have that much.

It is 8GB of FLASH NAND storage and 256MB OF RAM on the original Pre, double of BOTH for the Pre +.

oh ouch! i feel so hurt that you others think i'm so completely unintelligent that it couldn't possibly have been a TYPO....

oops, i'm over it. do i need to explain to you how to get over it as well?

oh ouch! i feel so hurt that you others think i'm so completely unintelligent that it couldn't possibly have been a TYPO....

oops, i'm over it. do i need to explain to you how to get over it as well?

oh ouch! i feel so hurt that you others think i'm so completely unintelligent that it couldn't possibly have been a TYPO....

oops, i'm over it. do i need to explain to you how to get over it as well?

lol. How about how to not triple type a post? Hahahahahahaha!

It wasn't the typo. It wasn't the typo. It wasn't the typo.

Typo is a spelling error, that looked like the wrong word.

tha Pre is tha first 4G compatible device.

you couldn't be more wrong.

Not only is he wrong, but I am probably in the vast majority of people by saying "I don't give a **** about 4G". It won't be in this area for a long time, anyway. We want a faster CPU, more RAM, more battery, and a larger screen a LOT more than some marketing drivel about 4G.

Agreed. Nice thing to have, but it will nearly double the data charge, only work in limited commercial areas and the first couple of telophony devices that handle it will likely be brutal. But I do love the long line of bet-testers (victims) lined up to have a Android+4G and get the bugs out for us. 1-2 years is a very long time to be stuck with a common Android.

At this point 4G doesn't cost any extra and does not have the 5GB limitations placed on Sprints 3G network. I for one live in Houston and cant wait. The though of uploading live video to the net as you record it is getting me all excited.

5GB limit on 3G is only for air cards, so this means nothing as to 3G vs 4G on phones. I go over 5GB a month on my pre and never see charges. Sprints data is true unlimited for phones.

Currently 4G is $60/mo where available. It does not include any phone calls, text messages, picture email, its just data. if you buy a sprint phone with subsidy, you must buy a calling plan first, that will start at $40 for a minimal plan. So 3G/Phone is $70, 4G+Phone is $100. Ideally (likely) Sprint will offer a package price of about $90, probably with a cap. Note, 4G CAN BE 4x faster than EVDO, but is still subject to network/internet latency, so it's a crapshoot in the best of situations.

If the rumors about deals Sprint is trying to work with a certain store chain are true and work out? Thats a big if? Then WiMax could be nation wide quicker than you think.

The limit isn't selling phones. Its Wimax antennas that limits coverage. They require FCC licenses, and installation of hardware. Also understand, Sprint "offers" Wimax services, but the company that "delivers" wimax service is Clear. Spint has been vacating the antenna business for years and they dont set up antennas anymore.

Well, in all reality, the person could say it was the first 5G :p

Anyways, to the original commenter, the first 4G device in the USA is the EVO 4G, but there are 4G devices through other parts of the world if I remember correctly.

Nope the evo will be the first one worldwide.

A forthcoming Sprint Pre+ isn't a real hardware upgrade in my opinion. More RAM, 16 GB, and Mobile Hotspot are all great, but in the same crappy shell, its a bit of a let down. I really need a bigger screen, better keyboard, better camera, BETTER BATTERY.....oh and a scratch proof screen would be nice (glass maybe).

Unless palm announce new hardware and the app cat. starts to take off more I feel alot of user will be switching to the new HTC Evo 4G. I have been a fan of palm for many many many years BUT things have b/c to stale in palm world right now, The webos is good , but it has a long way to go still and they better get these improvements out before HTC take all their potential (sprint and other) customers for at least a year which could break there bank at that point. I know I'm seriously considering the Evo myself after a year w/ my release day pre (which i have had very little hardware issue out of it expect for a little wiggle that was fixed w/ the sprint case, but software wise has been frustrating at times)

First I gotta say: Bluetooth keyboard w00t!

All kinds of good news here. Yet we still have the whiners and the buzzkills demanding everything RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW like ill-behaved toddlers.

I COMPLETELY agree with the whiners comment... its not like palm said they would deliver these things last year.

People just want instant gratification.

Indeed. It's like reading posts from babies.

In 9 months, you will be able to go to the EVO board they are complaining on and read about the next phone coming out.

There is always something new on the way that looks good. Usually, it disappoints.

I'm not in any way disappointed with my PRe.

Sweat's got a point. Palm is running out of time. Most people who have a Pre with Sprint are eligible for a new customer upgrade every year. Palm needs new hardware by June/July to keep people from moving to another device (android).

WTF is wrong with you people???? (not intended for only hostmatty)

don't you read any of my posts? long winded, yes, but valid points to the larger pro's than cons that i write with a debate and writing background so they aren't too biased and tinted rose colored.

I practically had tears in my eyes as i read the report of the new info, aps, and super easy developer apps. and then i DID when i saw that ruby made a surprise appearance even thought i figured he would after all the $$$ and care they put into dev days. $25 for 2 days of classes about the new dev apps and how to use them, breakfast and lunch and then tonight they get food and drinks at the after party at some fancy brewery restaurant that they are shuttling everyone to from the palm hq. and free gift still unannounced( i think).

and i'm still kicking myself for signing up before securing travel arrangements cuz now i'm at home waiting for tweeted tidbits from the event and then we get a shit-ton of excellent news for the phone as well as the mojo-jojo's and fantards and all i see is more than 50% of you jack-offs (pardon my pissed off and pms'd temper) post comments about switching to another phone/os. or, worse, just plain bashing one or two miniscule and easily fixable flaws and completely failing to acknowledge all of the awesome stuff that this small company has been producing at blinding speed because they really care about the company, the product, and US - the users.

let me just remind you spoiled brats that its really not common for a company to want to succeed for US and for them so they don't have to sell because they cant get the greedy stockholders to shut up and look at the possibilities and the warranted grand success very soon.

you think you'd be happier going with a phone that's made by a company that could care less about their products or you and just want the $$$$ however they can get it (stepping on your heads for sure)?

DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT ANOTHER PHONE MAKER IS GOING TO CARE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO THE PHONE OR THE BUGS OR WHAT YOU WANT AS FAR AS ADDED FUNCTIONALITY? if they make enough money and get tired of the bad press typical of the muckrakers who dis every single new technology for their necessary-for-development faults they will just "throw it in the gutter and go buy another"....EazyE. and where does that leave you and all the apps you invested in and the contract that isnt up for a new model? Hmmmmm doesn't seem like rocket science to me but i guess i'm just an observant and emotionally sensitive female right?

The funny thing is, I really do believe you cried tears of joy while reading about Ruby's cameo.

The rest of us aren't as creepily fanatical about Palm though.


You've got some good points. But you're being cocky, a shame really.

sorry if i come off like that. im always the girl in the man's world so i sometimes feel the need (over necessary) to cock-block.

i guess cocky is the by-product of cock-blocking ;)

I have to agree with your point, if not so much your tenor, creepycat. I was amazed that the majority of the comments to this very interesting article of innovations from a constantly innovating product were nothing about the article. I totally understand if people are impatient for new hardware, and desire the EVO. Yet, how many times, and in how many forums must the readers

Ugh. Double post.

It's great that there's new things coming for developers, but I still think they need to get the developers back into it.
The Android market is growing because developers see new phones, new devices and see revenue.
That can't be said for developing for WebOS right now ):

I'd be thrilled with a release right now that keeps my Pre from crashing when I get calls, when I try to turn on the screen, FYI DON'T try to wake it with the button while the keyboard is open use the spacebar only, or keep it from just turning off 2-3 times a day. My Wife's Pixi has the same behavior since

Look, I love my Pre and I know Palm is trying to do the right thing. But when I can upgrade in Sept, Palm has to have a better Sprint option than the Pre+.

This triple post would not have happened if I had a Bluetooth keyboard. :-)

I see all these posts about Palm needing to hurry up, or people are going to switch to a new phone when their 1-yr anniv comes up in June/July...

Do you guys really change phones that often? I don't. I make my purchase last as long as possible, and my Sprint Pre is working wonderfully. It is ridiculuous to just go get a different phone when your contract is up, just because. If you're not happy with your phone that's one thing, but if the Pre is working for you, you should hold on and see what happens. You don't lose anything by waiting, as in the tech world, everything is constantly advancing. So, if you don't like Palms new offering (whenever that comes out)... your Android or iPhone or whatever will probably have gone through some updates in the meantime, so it all works out one way or the other.

I hope Palm comes out with something really awesome on the hardware and software front by Fall as they indicated today.

I'm with you. As long as they keep upgrading the pre's software and adding new things., I can wait till they come out with better hardware. I'm almost a year with this phone, it does alot of things that I like and need. Just need voice dial while on bluetooth and visual voicemail(would be nice) and I'm good till the next flagship palm phone. I am hoping that the next one still keeps portrait keyboard.

oh and flash would be nice too..

hey bro,
i have visual voicemail set up on my pre. here is how I did it.
I got a google voice account. went to google voice on the computer, and set up the account. you can "add a phone" and when you add a phone, you can set it to take over your pre voicemail... for your pre phone...as well as your new voice phone number.
So, in effect, my pre sprint voicemail no longer works, i have it go straight to google voicemail client and it transcribes email/text of my voicemails.

to access google voice on the pre, there is a mobile link for google voice, that does everything the computer does.
works good!
and its free.

Well goody for you. If you haven't been reading on here you at this point are the rare exception on here. When June comes round we will all have been ALPHA testers for PALM. Between the Poor Hardware, half baked OS and out and out greed with accessories that should have been included (TS back cover that is now included in the + line). It's no wonder people here are saying "I'm done".

As far as changing phones so fast. You bet we will just to get better hardware that works. Palm stumbled badly with the choices they made. Unless they make amends fast, that giant sucking sound you will hear from Sprint are all the long suffering Pre users dropping the phone like a hot potato. In favor of what is better.*COUGH* EVO4G *COUGH*

Now we can be Alpha testers for EVO 4G, yea another year with a crappy new device. Yea me......

Sorry man, i'm a techie... i just gotta have the best new gear. when i got the Pre IMO it was the best OS/ phone combo on the market and in many ways i still feel that way...

but the EVO coming out this summer might change that, and since i can upgrade every year, it looks good... I am not a fan of android at all, but the specs of the phone make it up IMO. Not to mention being the only nerd on the block with a 4g phone, priceless...

If you're a techie and have to have the latest, you should have left about 7 months ago, and you'd have gone through 2-3 other devices since then. If you dream of better hardware, you're long overdue for your departure. If you want the best o/s out there, then you're hear for a year or so past Palm's death.

1) has a new OS come out and surpassed webOS that i'm unaware of?... Has a device come out with specs so good that I would overlook the limitations of the OS?

I didn't just say I have to have the latest, I said I have to have the best. Right now webOS and preware make the Pre the best. This summer, that might not be the case...

Mhunt:Sorry man, i'm a techie... i just gotta have the best new gear.

Mhunt:I didn't just say I have to have the latest, I said I have to have the best.

The step up for Evo is 4G where it's available. If Evo will be better, you're late to the party. Its just adding a 4G radio that doesn't work in 85% of the US Sprint network.

I don't care if only 85% of the US has sprint 4G. I spend 99% of my time in Baltimore. so for me, The Evo might be the best option this summer when i'm eligible for an upgrade...

and are you trying to insinuate that I've contradicted myself by quoting my posts? Because I haven't. Since June 09 no phone has been released that surpassed the pre IMO. So it's still the best gear.

Sorry, that's the read I got from:

"but the EVO coming out this summer might change that, and since i can upgrade every year, it looks good... "

4G is faster for sure, and the hardware will certainly be higher spec. But, it's just an android, so is there anything other than speed that would lead you to believe it might be a better experience? Are other 2.1's that close to Pre ATM?

Granted more speed is always a nice thing to have, but the "Lipstick on a Pig" line comes to mind when I see some people willing to ignore the UI and call the Evo a better experience simply because of screen size and speed. Is fast/bad better than slow/good? Its a subjective call, I respect whichever way you go on this.

Some people do. I went through 4 phones in a year a couple years ago.
I do like sticking to the same OS though, WebOS was my 1st time away from Windows since going to a smartphone.

The Pre is NOT working for me ATM. Need a few new apps. I am getting bored. Larger screen cause I rip DVDs and watch them on the phone, I also stream music in the car and the last update made bluetooth unreliable. Plus the crashing. I don't feel good about it anymore.
My wife who NEVER switches phones wants something else because her phone is crashing too.

BTW Palm did NOT indicate new hardware, they mentioned WebOS features.

I'm excited what Palm has to offer and look forward to WebOS 2.0! I bought 2 books yesterday so i can start developing for WebOS. I'm excited!!

I dont have to change phones every year, but I can, and I will. I use my phone more than any other tech item I own, so I want the latest and greatest.

Maybe I'm just a phone snob :(

I haven't seen any mention on whether the WebOS UI itself (Luna) and any/all of the built-in apps will take advantage of any of these new services, especially the GPU accelerated ones. That would give a big speed boost to the GUI. Add the 800Mhz overclocking on top of that I'd probably be happy with the current hardware for far longer.

Three words of advice for folks who experience lag: Reboot, reboot, reboot. It does wonders.

+1 Since setting my Pre to reboot every night, I've only seen maybe one or two card errors. I'm running pandora,using wireless headphones, running a couple other apps, surfing and taking calls, but WebOS just juggles the apps and actions and suspensions. Its probably not perfect, but its no longer an issue for me.

But, rebooting might be too difficult for some of our "early adopters" and "techies" that seem stuck on yesterdays glitches.

If I wanted to use something that required constant rebooting, I would be using MS-Windows. I don't find that to be an acceptable solution (MS-Windows nor rebooting the Pre). Could be because I am a very-long-time Unix/Linux user.

I think that no matter what palm says or does you guys are never happy, it seems like you guys were born and grew up in a year and became adults. Palm can take there time they are coming out with great software improvements and when they come out with a new device i would be waiting there for it. You guys enjoy your droid but dont come bitching about it later on when palm comes out with a bad a** OS..

i wouldn't go around suggesting Palm take their time, considering 3 of their biggest rivals are rolling in dough (google, apple, microsoft) and planning to release so gadgets that are sure to hog the media's attention. Palm needs to move quickly and efficiently.

Palm has already come out with a bad a** OS. but bad a** means nothing when your are selling....

Enjoy your phone while Palm goes bankrupt.

enjoy trolling somewhere else...

Be honest. How do you think Palm will survive? Many carriers are giving the phone away for free and they are still not selling. I want them to survive, but I dont see how. Without them being bought out, how do you see them making it?

Last I checked only Bell is officially giving them away, for a certain period of time at Radio Shack.

So I don't see your point about "many carriers". If they are all "giving them away", you would see a drop in the non-contract price as well, which in the case Bell did.

Bell has no one to blame but themselves for this one. Launching a CDMA device then two months later launch an HSPA network was just outright stupid.

carriers are giving the phone away, not Palm. Palm already sold those phones to the carrier

Pixi is now free on Sprint. You are correct, but carriers will not be ordering news phones until they sell their current inventory (or at least reduce it to a manageable amount).

The phone will work long after Palm is gone. Have any valid points?

To those whining about new hardware, this is a DEVELOPERS conference. New hardware announcements have no place being there. It is about the current and future outlook for developing on the platform. Rubinstein has stated they have new hardware on the horizon, be patient. Most likely they are trying to get the hardware announcements much closer to release after the 6 month wait fiasco for the Pre was last year.

I will say this is kind of a big tease I really hope we see some of these features over the summer instead of 1 big push in the fall.


I just got my Pre, so I hope this extends the life of it so that I don't feel left behind over the next 2 years! I know there's some GIANT smartphones out there that would cost me an arm and a leg, but honestly the Pre is perfect for what I need.

And not that I know there's an easy overclock coming, that should extend the hardware a bit.

Hang in there, Palm! I heard someone call it an "enthusiast" phone, and I couldn't help but feel some pride for the platform (being the big nerd that I am).

get the software right then worry about the hardware

Poeple see hardware before software. Plus where are main stream apps? Bank apps, ESPN, USA Today, eBay, Amazon, etc.....

For me, they did so well with webkit, I just run the websites raw on the Pre. I find LITE apps annoying when they are not full-site functional or have obscure interfaces.

If you want Facebook chat, load the site and chat. Dont wait for some dev to create another UI.

Compare the Chase web site to the Chase iPhone app and you will see a huge difference. Chase app comes up very fast while the web site is not so. Anyway Ill have to stick with the web sites for now, pinch and zooming all the way.

Someone needs to do an in depth analysis of the death spiral that Palm is in. They have massive quantities of unsold inventory. They are unable to sell this off, even when discounted enormously. The constant rumors (and let's not kid ourselves) of the future sale of the company has an extremely negative impact on the company. Developers, especially good ones, have either left or are strongly considering it. Users (myself included) have stopped or slowed down app purchases because the future of the platform is in doubt. This negative feedback loop with the developers just makes the entire situation worse.

It sucks that the phone didn't get any traction in the market. I think it was because they simply were not ready. I like the hardware for the most part-the side charger cover sucks and the keyboard is marginal-but I think they needed more time. The phone ran terribly for the most part for the until the 1.3.5 update, and it was missing many important features that users expected. Users shouldn't be expected to live in forums to use their phone as it was intended. I still have to fix the mic constantly on my device...

If they could have launched the phone in the state that it is in now, I think it would have been much more successful. Avoiding the creepy ads would have been nice as well.

I am jumping on the Windows Phone 7 bandwagon when it hits Sprint. It has/copies a lot of the nice features of my Pre, and adds some new ones that I find quite interesting. I HATE Apple and Steve Jobs, and I don't like Google either. I have used some Android phones, but I only find them usable when HTC makes them so.

I hope that someone does an in depth analysis of Palm's situation from a realistic perspective. All we seem to get are rumors in an effort to garner page views.

LOL, I read with great interest until you announced your plan to jump on Win7! Have you read about what Win7 is and is not? Their new phones are going to have all the market impact of the new Zune, even with a bottomless bank account.

+1. The last thing on EARTH many Palm users would migrate to is anything Microsoft. Right now, all eyes are on the Evo, running Android Linux; not on some MS phone. That is going to be Palm's competition come Summer. For all I know, the Evo might end up being a "yawn". But it certainly LOOKS like it will be very interesting from a hardware standpoint. And from an OS standpoint, Android Linux would be most of our #2 choice if not WebOS Linux.

Its all smoke up the rear. All Palm is doing, imo, is trying to keep the momentum going so they look somewhat attractive to a buyer. Rubinstein is just playing the role of a salesman with all the hype he is spewing (again) and interviews he's participating in.

And for those of you who think, "Its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming, its coming", is ok, well... I have some fantastic swamp land for sale that will make you millions!


Let's hope they mean that everything will be rolled out by fall, but that it happen in chunks. We desperately need those new APIs and most of them already exist. They just need to let devs use them.

Are you sure that's Javascript services and not native / c services? I can't see switching from one high-level language to another being that big a performance win, but native code could be. (yeah, v8's a fast engine,but still)

I use the 800mhz patch and its great. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't overclocking generally shorten the life my processor/hardware?

IF I go with Android on the EVO and IF Palm comes out with some amazing hardware after, I wouldn't hesitate for a bit on going back to WebOS.

If the rumors are true and Palm gets bought out, is there a possibility that WebOS development and updates could come to a halt? That's what I fear most.

I use the 800mhz patch and its great. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't overclocking generally shorten the life my processor/hardware?

IF I go with Android on the EVO and IF Palm comes out with some amazing hardware after, I wouldn't hesitate for a bit on going back to WebOS.

If the rumors are true and Palm gets bought out, is there a possibility that WebOS development and updates could come to a halt? That's what I fear most.

I guess my Pre like to post twice....sorry

I guess my Pre like to post twice....sorry

I guess my Pre like to post twice....sorry

WTF???? I give up, no more posting on here from my Pre.

Stop refreshing your Pre's browser and it will stop re-posting.

Holy crap, I've never seen so many whiny babies before. Geezus people, get a grip.

I'd rather wait a little bit longer and have things done right. Watch they rush everything out the door and there'll be another thousand posts about how everything still sucks.

Sure, I agree we need new hardware (like yesterday). Palm's already said they're making progress on new products. So give it a rest with the negative comments.

Lastly, I agree with Kyusaku. This is DEVELOPER'S conference. They're not going to talk about hardware. WebOS is Palm's most prized asset, and I'm glad they're focusing on improving it. I've had a Pre for 6 months, and my phone today is VASTLY different than when I first got it. Nobody else can say the same about any other platform.

...u took the words from my mouth monkykikkr! Our webOS Pres are nothing like the half baked Android phones out there. People will never be satisfied no matter what...and I think it's stupid. I'm sticking with Palm and webOS til the end.

Go Palm!

We've been "waiting a bit longer" for almost a year and Palm hasn't done ANYTHING right.

Do you guys really have so much emotionally invested in Palm that you'd rather use a subpar phone just out of loyalty rather than switching to something better?

If Palm hasn't done ANYTHING right then why are you still using them, or at least reading about them?

Does Palm have plenty of work to do? Of course. Do I wish it had a few more features? You bet. But if I run out and get the EVO when it comes out am I guaranteed a perfect phone? Not at all. Show me another mobile tech company that turns out updates and improvements as often as Palm does.

Being a whiny baby I have to chime in. WebOS is Palms best asset.
The hardware sucks. I've lost track of how many times my Pre has been replaced, it's either 5 or 6 times since I got it on launch day.

The phone is better than it was on June 7th but not as good as 6 months ago. I'd gladly live without video recording if it didn't crash multiple times a day.

I'm entitled to whine a little about the state of the Pre right now.

Us people that "whine" are usually ALPHA testers as someone up here stated. We bought the phone just when it came out and it just gave us problems. It's kinda obvious many are not happy. Also, baby that doesn't cry, doesn't eat.

Not many. Some are not happy. Don't confuse a bunch of people complaining on a message board for actually representing a large portion of Pre owners. I for one love my pPre and the vast majority of people I know in the real world also love their phones.


WTF???? I give up, no more posting on here from my Pre.

If you don't know how to use it - get off the blog!

Install the no auto refresh (or whatever it's called) patch. Should fix the issue.

Voice and Call recording and more on the way?
I miss having this from my Centro.
Woo Hooo!!!

Now get me an FTP client, please!

This just has to be webos 2.0 it's too much to be 1.5 and it has to be coming with that palm 4g device it's only right aint no way they can not do this, I swear if they skrew this up then it wasn't ment for them to make it....

Oh dear God, they haven't even completed WebOS 1 and people are ready to start over with WebOS 2. Lauching a next Gen O/S and new SDK, PDK, API's, and jumping gens on applications....THAT WOULD GET ME OUT OF HERE.

I'm not even going to mutter the "with what money...." comment.

So what about the summer?

This is the best news in a while. Palm needs to tighten up the OS before they put out new hardware. This phone should be able to do the things we could do on our older Treos and Centros. It looks like these APIs will allow that now...voice recorder, voice dialing, etc.

I couldn't agree more the ones cryin are the same ones that will be sayin the same thing about the next phone they get I'm stickin with plam till the end

Love that voice memos are coming! Now I just want a new Palm device with a Pre-like form factor and at least 32GB storage for all my music!

Is that so wrong? Go Palm!

bonjour? No thank you. Hope they allow us to disable it. Yay exploits! I'd really prefer my phone to not magically attach to random networks and advertise itself, thanks.

Bonjour works at the application level, not the OS level. There were two vulnerabilities found in Bonjour for Windows in 2008. You're at risk more from your WiFi on your Pre/Pixi+.

Exploits? Bonjour was developed by Apple, not Microsoft.

You'd likely be surprised by all of the products that use Bonjour - some you may use on a daily basis.

Anyone else notice that, in the fourth graphic from the top (showing the new App Catalog), that phone has a "p" after the time indicating PM?

This is a patch designed by Jason Robitaille (at my request, no less) a while back!! :)

You think this means that someone at Palm has Jason's patch installed? That this will be in a future version of webOS? Both? Neither?

Either way, I'm happy. (Hey, it's the little things in life!)

Also pretty funny that it's at 4:20p. Pulp Fiction, anybody?

I am with the majority of people that have written comments here.... Palm needs to accelerate the introduction of these new APIs, features, etc. A "fall" launch date really means winter and I just don't think Palm has that long to wait. I pray they can get their act together before then. I have been with palm for 10 years but that new EVO at Sprint is going to be hard to pass up if I still have the same PRE as my only option to stay with Palm. If it wasn't for these forums and patches (and 800mhz), there is just no way I could justify sticking with my PRE. The problem is that most people wont spend the amazing amount of time on these forums that it takes learning this stuff and figuring out how to install and upgrade tweaks and patches. Most people expect to buy a phone and it just works. Please Palm - get it going!

Agreed for a long time. They didn't choose to grandfather Garnet resources and it's taking way to long to make it do the same stuff Garnet devices could do, FOR YEARS.

I'll hold my upgrade for a while. I don't wanna get stuck with an Evo. If all the Evo Trolls have not learned their lesson about jumping on a first Gen device, let them pay the price at androidcentral in four months.

What makes me giggle the most, many of these bozo's don't live in 4G markets and to get 4G service, there will be a monthly cost. Consideraing how badly they whine now, this will be fun to watch. If they were so hot for 4G, they should already have it on their laptops and shouldnt care about what their phone does.

I couldn't agree more the ones cryin are the same ones that will be sayin the same thing about the next phone they get I'm stickin with plam till the end

They say the fall so that really means by winter time. thats cool cause i"ll been on had the EVO for six months by then. ONLY 7 more weeks til i give my Pre away

Good luck with that. In my opinion the EVO is like owning a Porsche but being forced to drive it with a little tykes steering wheel. Hardware specs don't mean anything if the OS has a peg leg.

Hee hee, it's a Chevette with a Corvette engine, but the engine only uses 2 cyls unless you're on very specific short stretches of particular highways. Maybe a travel agent can start up "4G Tours" where people can fly away for a three day weekend and use their phones at full speed.

Remind me again of that GPU inside my Pre? Oooh... Its sleeping right? Got it...

Soon (TM) right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't HTC pioneer the "ignore we have a GPU to write drivers for" philosophy?