webOS marketshare sinks to 1.3% | webOS Nation

webOS marketshare sinks to 1.3% 105

by Derek Kessler Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:57 am EST

Nielsen smartphone survey data

Nielsen has released their latest survey numbers on the smartphone market, and it seems that the pace of smartphone adoption is quickly accelerating, with 29.7% of US mobile phone owners having a small computer in their pockets. That shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Also not a surprise: the iPhone, BlackBerry devices, and Android phones are dominating the smartphone space, snagging 27.9%, 27.4%, and 22.7%, respectively. Even Windows Mobile devices (yes, we’re talking old school Start menu Windows Mobile) stand at 14% in the survey, while Symbian accounts for 3.4%, generic “Linux” for 3.3%, and bringing up the rear is Palm (webOS and old school Palm OS) with a paltry 1.3%.

To put that into perspective, for every one Palm owner there are 21 iPhone users, 21 BlackBerry addicts, 17 Android owners, and even 11 Windows Mobile users. Heck, there are 2.5 times as many Symbian users in the US than there are Palm, and Nokia has notoriously struggled in North America.

All this begs the question: what is HP going to do to turn this around? CES is around the corner, and we’re hoping that Palm manages to pull out all the stops with the new hardware releases really needed to prop up the awesomeness that is webOS 2.0 (and maybe some wishful thinking, but we’d like to see a big splash with a feature-packed webOS 2.1 too). At this point HP and Palm are going to need a big splash, essentially rebooting the consumer mindset as it pertains to webOS and Palm. It's becoming clear that Palm isn't even in the conversation for most people.

Source: Nielsen; Via: Android Central, Engadget


Haha... like we didnt see that coming!! Oh well it has already been stated that HP would have to build a new platform from the ground up pretty much.

Not a new platform, just new devices.

New platform... New devices, new apps, new customers, new marketing, new development teams.. etc, etc...

The only thing that will not be "new" is the OS but I guess you can call that new too since its now HPWebos... lol well atleast until we get 2.0 in the coming months.

yeah i'd agree with H-cubed. i think you need much more then just hardware. that's fine for people already satisfied but i think it's more then just hardware. The whole package isn't there like on other platforms.

Wow, 1.3% includes PalmOS?
You'll see HP will turn this around...in the coming months.

=) Pre 7 will be HUGE!

I agree HP will turn this around but it will take years.
I think we all expected this since we haven't seen any new webos phones that can compete with what's out there now.

Honestly. I was planning on jumping ship to android if nothing is announced at CES, but my gf just got the LG Optimus and i had to set it up for her. After playing with her phone for hours i realized all the advantages webos has over android.

Unfortunately non technical people don't see this because all they look for when they are buying a phone is the form factor. Android is gaining market share at a high rate because they are on more and more devices. I'm telling you, non technical people don't care about the OS. They just want something that looks/feels good in their hands. Android did it right by providing their OS on nearly every hardware form factor out there.

I agree HP needs to starting licensing use of webOS. There needs to be more devices out there running the OS and increasing the visibility to the average person. That would hopefully also increase market share. They need to do something in a big way quickly. I am on Sprint and don't plan to change that so without a new hardware I will eventually be forced to Android. Likewise there is a need for more apps in common with Android and iOS. My kid keeps pointing out 'my friend has this or that'. It would be good to have a SiriusXM and ereader that works with Nook and Kindle.

Looking forward to see lots of positive news from HP and improved partnerships with Cell providers if not other vendors.

Agreed. I too am a Sprint customer. HP needs to get it's OS out there, My wife has an Android (Samsung Intercept) and she has more complaints about it. I try to figure and read the Android Central forum to help her and it is more greek than geek. If HP partnered with other phone manufacturers like Samsung, LG, Sanyo, Sony, then we can boost the market share, get webOS in the discussion and eat away at the iPhone, Crackberry, and Droid users base. Also, HP needs to advertise like Motorola, Verizon and Droid does. When you hear DROID on the TV screen, people stop and take noitice. We need that for webOS, and intergrate the homebrew community into the mainstream. I will hold out as long as I can on webOS, now HP, don't disapoint me. Robot is calling me.

Sure they will, keep telling yourself that and making excuses for hp/Palm, WebOS...hahah...lol.

It's becoming clear that Palm isn't even in the the conversation for most people......

There are Pre 2 ads? Where are they running? I've yet to see one.

HPalm has only itself to blame.

A weak Pre 2 that HP decided to spend no money in campaigning for. Look at BB's ads, and look at Pre2's, 20 vs 1 is no surprise I say.

A slow merging that after 4 month still has nothing to show for.

This society need to be constantly reminded to stay in the game. and HPalm so far has done nothing.

I bet they are looking at those 70% feature phone users. But you better be more aggressive and ambitious than Pre2. Otherwise, being swamped is expected.

"A slow merging that after 4 month still has nothing to show for."

Cant expect them to merge and design new products within the 1st four months. These things take time, especially if you want to do it right.

We can expect HP and Palm to infuse the advertising budget for existing products to keep the brand and devices in the public eye during the restructuring of the Palm organization. Where are the Pre 2 ads? The Pre, Pre Plus, Pixi and Pixi, Plus were still selling when HP bought Palm but the ads dried up.

You can't expect them to be perfect and have everything set, new products available after only (insert any timeframe) months since the merger. These things take time. There is a process. The window's not closed. They have a crowbar. You just don't understand how the market/business works. There's plenty of time/space in the smartphone market. They will come out with phones that will blow people away. There's 70% of the population who don't have smartphones. They are ALL potential webOS buyers. They have a roadmap. Just be patient. There will be multiple form factors, Jon said so. Stacks. Synergy. Unsurpassed web experience. Synergy. Stacks.
BTW, had all-you-can-eat crab legs last night. Soooo goooooood!!! ugghgughguhuhgughg...

Everyone is waiting for webOS 2.0 before they buy a Pre.

=) Sure they are. Except, if you don't have a pre, you most likely have no idea what 2.0 means, or even what webOS is. But please keep on believing.

a slow merging? You haven't witnessed much company merging before have you? The HP and Palm merging is actually going faster then a normal merging of 2 companies.

heres an example.. When Nextel merged with Sprint that took a couple years and that sucked for us Sprint users because customer service in that merging time SUCKED. If you logically look at the Pre2 that is a Palm designed phone... Not a HP/Palm designed device. That phone was probally supposed to be released nearly 6months ago around the 1yr anniversary of WebOS and the original Pre. Palm probally didn't have enough $$ to get it to production and had to wait on HP to approve the budget to get the last developed device Palm did on their own out of the system before re-vamping the program. Hence the luke warm push on this particular device.

as for PalmOS/WebOS having such a small market share.. So.. Have you met most of the iPhone or Android users out there? I have... Um... Lets just say most these people are jumping off feature phones and wanting a smartphone not knowing squat what they are doing. Lord knows how many times I have shown Android and iPhone owners how to use their devices beyond games, texting, making phone calls and surfing the web.

what I have noticed about the WebOS users I ran into is they know what a smartphone is and how to fully use their devices. It's very few I actually need to show a WebOS user hw to use their devices past the games,text,phone and web use. The majority of the time the convos I have with WebOS users is ways we found to use WebOS more in our lives dealing with patches or shortcuts we tripped across because we know how to get around our devices and use almost all the features.

so that small number is actually showing who the elite people are. I lost track of how many times an Android user has seen me use gestures to navigate around my phone and WebOS multitasking and they are floored. I usually hear "wow I should of gotten that but the store rep couldn't show or tell me anything about the OS." or I get the T-Mobile Android users looking at that saying "If T-Mobile had that phone I would of gotten that instead".

HP will turn things around with it's new HP/Palm designed phones. All one has to do is look at everything HP is buying up company wise and notice they are working on something big and nearly everything from Streaming to Video conferencing to developing and Cloud computing all "in house". Only one other company comes close to a full "in house" experience.. And that's crApple. I have confidence there's going to be some good things shown at CES that will change that market share report this time next year.

You have to remember that the Pre 2 was not HP's phone. Palm probably had already spent a lot of money developing it, so HP decided might as well release it.

This society does not have to be constantly reminded. You just need a big bang and you're back in the show.

You really believe that, don't you? Please tell me why a new smartphone buyer should go for a webOS device over an Android/iphone/blackberry/windows phone 7 device? Or better yet, tell me why you think they will give it a second glance when the above 4 are pretty much household names, and those wading into the smartphone market, or any market, for the first time will most likely go with a name that is recognizable?
Optimism is one thing. Blind allegiance is another.

Because a newly designed device running WebOS (or whatever it's being called this week) easily stands out in comparison with the other better-known names. All I had to do last week to impress a friend of mine with an Android phone was to load up 5 different apps on my Pre and show him how I easily swipe to switch between cards. I then kept Pandora playing while I checked ESPN mobile, e-mailed, and texted.

Also, since when are HP and/or Palm not recognizable names? Hell, there was a time when the term "Palm Pilot" was nearly synonymous with "PDA" in the same way "iPod" is nearly synonymous with "mp3 Player."


Another Note,
Name someone or even any business who does not know the name HP

Yeah, everyone knows the names. If they've heard the name Palm in association with smartphones lately, take a guess at what they think of them now, with the success of the pre. An although people know of HP, they don't associate it with smartphones. Computers and printers are HP to the non-techie. Meanwhile, when I say "iphone", "droid", "blackberry", what do you think the casual user or even the potential smartphone buyer hears? Go out and ask some random stranger to give you the name of a smartphone manufacturer. Who do you think they'll mention?
At this point, all HP has to offer is webOS. And while we know it is an amazing OS, perhaps the best out there, the new smartphone buyer will look at it compared to what their friends and family have, will look at the benefits of the other platforms and the apps they can offer, and will pass right by. If anything can grab their attention, it will be a killer tablet that competes, with specs and looks, as well as in advertising strength, with the ipad. That market is wide open, and is a place where webOS can make an impact and become a household name. From there, people may begin to see how it separates itself from the pack, and will recognize the benefits of running it on their smartphones. But in the smartphone market itself...I just don't think it's happening.

It's not that hard to multi-task on Android either, it is just a much more beautiful experience on WebOS. I own both and use both quite often. All I really want in a WebOS device is a bigger screen and a reworked keyboard (if it has a keyboard at all). WebOS is one of the prettiest operating systems around, but it sure would be good to show that beautiful OS on a 4 inch SAMOLED screen...

The Pre2 is not a post HP Palm merger phone... it was already in the pipeline. And HP knows it is not the OMGEveryCustomerIsGoinToWantThis Phone. That is why they release the Pre2 without a lot of fanfare and little marketing. The Pre2 is, in my opinion, just there for developers... and if any customers buy it thats just a bonus. Really need to wait to judge the merger until HP shows what they got at CES.

@xHunt3r,, Exactly what I said in my probally too lengthy post.


slow merging? Are you kidding?
This was one of the fastest company mergers I've seen. Normally the merging process can take up to a year. This merging process (if i recall correctly) took less than 7 weeks.

if palm came out with new hardware earlier then maybe a big portion of there user base would not have upgraded there phones to another platform on sprint. the only people on webos are die hard fans, people who paid full price for the pre 2, developers, and people who are stuck in a contract till next year.

With most places not selling the Pre now how the heck are you supposed to raise market share? There haven't been any new devices either, so that doesn't help.

Exactly! Even those of us who already love webOS can't get our hands on a new phone. How do they expect to sell things that don't exist?

their has been a new device... That's the sad part (pre 2).


I'm still a proud owner of a pr?. Still show off the awsomeness of WebOS. I may be the only 1 of 100 but dammit...I am that proud 1.

I dont think HP or even Palm care about these numbers and they expected this due to the buy out. Its not like they are hurting for cash or anything. I'm sure HP bought Palm for FUTURE plans. Not RIGHT NOW plans.

whatever it is they are planning on releasing it better be the first @ something. Maybe a quad core processor with 1gb of ram..... Something that would blow everyones mind and blow everything else out the water......

whatever they are planning on releasing, its better working right from the start. and worldwide, since no other company is as stupid as palm and concentrates mostly on the US market and its carriers

Great last few lines in this article. My thoughts lately have been that HP will essentially be launching a new OS, with new hardware when it finally decides to get back in the game. They're essentially starting from scratch, wiping the slate clean, whatever other cliche you want to add. The only good thing is that they don't have to build an OS from the ground up. I think HP is well aware of these numbers, and will be focusing on the other 70% of feature phone users, treating webOS as a new operating system. They have no momentum, zero mindshare, no buzz, and a small amount of users. They have no choice but to start over.

I think jaybee is right...

HP is essentially starting from scratch. The Palm brand has long been written off by consumers, and the current offering of Palm phones simply cannot compete with the iPhone's or Droid's of the world.

HP's strategy should be to hit CES bigtime with maybe 2 or 3 hot HP-branded phones. I know many of you will disagree, but dropping the Palm branding is a must if HP wants to breathe new life into webOS phones.

HP's only hope with WebOS is to kill the Palm Brand, rename WebOS something else, and distance themselves from the "former Palm" ASAP. New hardware. New OS. And on day one of release, release it everywhere to everyone all over the world (Not just France). Of course, that may not be enough to inspire former Palm users to come back, but it might be enough to snag feature phone users in developing countries, who've never heard of the iPhone, Android, or Blackberry. Good luck with that, HP. LOL!!!

No devices, no apps, no numbers. plain and simple.

webOS market share will continue to decline until HP releases new devices.

I mean seriously, we are all desperately waiting new hardware. If HP can deliver a truly kick-ass phone, people will start buying it...

When comparing market share to Android, Symbian, or Windows Mobile, keep in mind that there are dozens of device manufacturers and hundreds of different devices.

While I agree with you, the fact is that palm has twice as many product lines as Apple in this space. Pre and Pixi versus just the iPhone. I love my Pre, but with very little news even other than "coming soon" I am leery. I am basically just waiting for the iPhone to come to Verizon at this point. I think the lack of any type of movement is hurting everything. Developers go where the customers are, customers, like myself, are leery to pay for any app for a phone/OS that we don't really have a road map, or any idea what to expect, it is a far distant 5th or so at this point. So developers don't come. They focus on iOS, Android, etc. Personally? I would have preferred Apple (if the rumors were true that they were interested) to have purchased palm. At least we would know that the future would be to buy an iPhone, and that hopefully, Apple would have taken some of the features that webOS is by far the best of any mobile OS (Synergy, Notifications) and made them part of iOS.

Good point.

I stopped buying apps for my Pre Plus as soon as I heard all of that "in the coming months" nonsense regarding us getting WebOS 2.0. It would be interesting to see a pole on how many WebOS users are not buying apps since the product road map isn't being communicated. Seriously, 1.3 percent? HP may feel the need to wait around, but developers and others clearly, are not.

Hopefully, an oversight, but those of us waiting for that big splash at CES--WebOS World is reporting that HP is NO LONGER listed as a CES 2011 exhibitor. Palm is still on the list, however...


Getting harder to hang on.

My contract isn't up until NEXT December, so I'll stick with Palm at least that long.

I completely understand the folks who have jumped ship. Android, iPhone and now WP7 are all cool. I am aware of BlackBerry... That's just a joke. BB has some cool stuff too.

The Pre2 has to have been just something Palm had in the works that was too far along to kill at the time of the acquisition. HP knows it isn't going anywhere with that device, so I don't fault them for not pouring money into marketing it. I do suspect they will bring out some new devices at CES that will make the Pre2 pointless. I think getting them in the hands of developers to work with WebOS2 is a good move. Sadly, it will be difficult for developers to go too far down that path unless they can get WebOS2 on the EXISTING Pres, Plusses, and Pixieseses... ASAP even...

Unless HP can deliver a webOS phone with iPhone-like form factor in 1Q 2011, I will have to say goodbye to webOS.

"CES is around the corner, and we


it was almost 2yrs ago Palm with newly acquired Rubenstein presented at CES the Palm Pre and WebOS to a standing ovation and won best of show. Lets face it Palm was struggling finacially then. They can possibly do it again.

Will Android be there? Yes.. But they are going to be focused on tablets seeing that 2.2 (froyo) isn't scaling all that well to tablet form factors so they will be more or less showcasing a new OS that can.

is RIM going to be there? Pfft who cares have you seen their new phones? A Palm Pre knock off phone and a clam shell..oooo ahhh.. They will also be concentrating on tablets.. With their black book or black pad or whatever they are going to call it which once again is a knock off of WebOS. So they have one device (phone) that's a knock off of the Pre and one device (tablet) that's a knock off of WebOS... They are not going to wow alot of people.. They are drying up quicker then Palm due to unoriginal ideas and poor web browser in their OS.

is Apple going to be at CES? Nope.. CES is beneath Steve Jobs ego.. They do their own shindig later in the month so they don't have to share stage or a weekend with anyone else because Steve thinks his stuff is the next best thing to sliced bread... And he's a dictator leader of the tech world that doesn't want to be seen with the peasants.. Lol

HP may not be on the list anymore of presenters but their subsidiary Palm will be... It's been known there will be multiple form factors released next year from HP/Palm. So the chances of Palm shaking up CES again is very good possibility. Because obviously they will more then likely show off the PalmPad but also more then likely a couple other form factors such as phones and printers and how WebOS scales to all form factors effortlessly and how they all an work together as a seemless unit.

I could be wrong... And if I am.. Oh well.. I could be optomistic.. Oh well.. But when you look at things HP has been doing behind the scenes, all things point at HP working on something big... CES gets the most press coverage so it wouldn't surprise me if they dropped one heck of a bombshell for the world to see what is either going on or being released in the very near future.

just saying..

"is Apple going to be at CES? Nope.. CES is beneath Steve Jobs ego.. They do their own shindig later in the month so they don't have to share stage or a weekend with anyone else because Steve thinks his stuff is the next best thing to sliced bread... And he's a dictator leader of the tech world that doesn't want to be seen with the peasants..."


Great OS, no apps, no hardware, bad advertising. RIP

good ideas with the OS. Missing lots of features too though and missing a lot of polish and small things.

So are we officially off of Rubinstein's roadmap or what? In the Spring everyone here said that Palm would be fine - there's a roadmap.

everyone hear also said the pre was selling great. that it would all be better when they opened the app catalog, at the end of whatever month when they flooded the catalog with the backlog of app submissions, that the sales would flood in when they went to verizon, no, AT&T, no release in Europe. They said analyst where wrong when they said the sell through was declining in september of last year. People here said buy Palm stock when it fell from 13 to 9. They said buy when it fell from 9 to 7. If there is one thing i know it's that you have to think for yourself and pretty much take what "everyone here" says with not just a grain but a cup full of salt cause there is just that much bias to their opinion.

I bought my pre in June 2009 they promised flash. fast forward to dec 2010 still no flash no new hardware nothing. I just could not wait any longer so now i have a Htc Evo with flash and 4g and tons of apps and games i have over a 100 games on my phone.which is not possible on the pre minus only 8gb i have 32 games on the pre and the memory is pretty much full the pre had a huge edge in 3d gaming but even that has started to dry up Android is closing in on all fronts. i know most claim not to care about games but i do and so do my friends.I really want to stick with web os it a sweet os but the hardware is just not up to par and the pre2 is not much better its what the first pre should have been. i just hope someone hacks one of the htc or samsung phones to run web os on it that would be sweet Hp Palm Evo dream phone

webOS 2.0 offers Flash. Unfortunately those of us without a Pre2 will have to wait an eternity for the carriers to actually push out 2.0 to us...

Those of us who don't live in France and don't have a Pre 2 are expecting WebOS 2.0 "in the coming months". I'll believe it when I see it. As for blind faith in Palm, nothing plus nothing equals nothing. Not a fanboy. Show me something worthy and I'll be interesting. We don't even have vapor ware as motivation here. All the wishful thinking in the world can't change the numbers. 1.3% marketshare = dying platform. HP bought Palm to put WebOS on connected printers. I see no evidence of anything else. And what PRE 2 commercial? The one they must be playing in France, because I haven't seen any here yet.

EXCEPT...the 1.3% is MINDSHARE, *not* marketshare. Neilsen (like their competitor Arbitron, who was a client of mine) conduct their surveys via phone during dinner and ask things like...

"Of the following 6 smartphone systems, which have you heard of; Apple iPhone, RIM Blackberry, Android Droid.."

OR like:

"Which of the following smartphones have you used in the past 3 months; Iphone, Blackberry, etc.."

That's a MINDSHARE survey, nothing more. ComScores data comes from DEVICES hitting a SERVER and that IS an indicator of how many devices there are. Palm had 4.2% MARKETshare in Sept. When, Octs numbers drop, Palm will probably be around 3.9% or so which will still be over 2 million. Declining? Yes. But no mass exodus. Saying otherwise is just FUD. (that and Palm will still add like 20-30k users next report. =P )

Mind share then why is Gartner saying basically the same thing. You just want to continue to make excuses for failing OS for what ever the reason, advertising, crappy phones, etc.


This really shouldn't be a surprise, there aren't even any commercials about webOS...I see iPhone commercials, HTC commercials, Windows Phone, even Motorola did one on the DROID PRO...How can you sell anything, if the public doesn't even know that there is a phone that can run up to 50 apps at once, play 3D games, and notify you without stopping you from what you are doing?...Market HP, market dang it!...

What does HP Palm have to advertise? A phone that is 1 1/2 years old...who cares anymore. There is a new Android phone released pretty much every other month so it is always going to be advertised. Blackberry has a huge business user base and Apple has the portion of the market who are/were hooked on their iPod and have made significant purchases through iTunes. What does HP Palm have at this point that is even worth advertising? Don't get me wrong, I have a Pre and I have enjoyed it...but it seems more and more like HP Palm doesn't even care about their consumers (i.e. still no WebOS 2.0 even though its complete), and I don't want to hear about it being tested by the carriers because I don't care. I want WebOS 2.0 on my phone period. If the carriers can't get the software distributed then pull it out of their hands like Microsoft and Apple have done. HP Palm has the money...tell the carriers to stuff it.

I can't recall ever seeing a Palm Pre commercial, ever. If HP advertised the Pre 2 along side any other smart phone, that 1.3% market share would plummet to nothing. So I guess we'll see what they have in store at CES.

same old story.
this isn't a real surprise.
bad hardware, poor apps catalog, just two model in 1 year and a half, blocked applications for outside official market owners, poor advertising.
u simply just can't live on hype forever!
I would have liked if webOS had been invented by Samsung...poor me...poor all of us waiting and waiting, and waiting again...if after CES Hpalm won't present any news webOS will be dooomed. plain and clear.
even Symbian and WM6.5 has more market share...

Sad but true. webOS is an awesome OS, and Palm put a lot of effort into designing it. Unfortunately they "phoned it in" when designing the hardware. Sales of the Pre and Pixi have been disappointing, and Palm's poor financial state meant it didn't have the money for marketing or R&D on new hardware... Now that HP owns them, they have the money and engineering resources to do something amazing with webOS. The only question is when will HP "fire the shot that's heard around the world."

glass half-full post...

What was iphone's market share in 2006? What was android's share a few years ago?
People swap phones every year or two, so market share can be very fluid.
If they build a better mousetrap, they will catch mice, and these better traps are apparently on the way.
You dont think great web reviews of new hardware (or user reviews) will have any impact? WebOS is amazing, and people just need to see and hear about it.

I also figure that if they can work hard to get webOS share up to maybe 5%, word of mouth will spread the fire.

HP knows what they are doing.

side note, I hope their future device advertising campaigns paint the devices as grand, not used by some regular looking chick in a football jersey.

People swap to phones that are more than likely less than six months old. People don't swap to phones that are 1 1/2 years old. You can't be telling me that if you went to buy a phone today that you would actually buy a Palm Pre. I know I wouldn't, no matter how good the OS. By the time my next 2 year contract was up I'd be using a phone that is 3 1/2 years old. Talk about being behind the curve.

I know 3 people off the top of my head that have done exactly what you said people wouldn't do. and has done so within the past month

Yes true it is only 3 people, but still I am only 1 person telling you about the 3 others i know.

Truly surprising...I haven't been able to recommend the Pre or Pixi to anyone in the past six months in good conscience. Oh, I spout the virtues of WebOS such as push notifications and excellent multi-tasking, but I find myself saying wait for new hardware...whenever that may be. I don't want my friends shackled to the Pre when/if HP Palm finally puts up a new competitive product. Like others, I would really like to see WebOS succeed, but the clock is ticking and until that new product comes (cough, not the Pre 2), I will not recommend the Pre.

You not only have to build a better mouse trap though. You need to build a selection of enticing baits to put on the mousetrap.

If you only have 5000 baits, while the other mousetraps have many, many times more you will lose.

If you can only buy the bait for that mousetrap in certain parts of the world, you will lose.

If the only examples of the mousetraps you have are 1.5 year old devices, you will lose.

If the new mousetraps are only available in France and for one type of user in the U.S., you will lose.

If you do not market the new mousetrap appropriately, you will lose.

Sorry, but better mousetraps have been made forever, but go to your local hardware store and look for one -- most are the good 'ole spring and slab of wood.

I am referring to the future, when supposedly new powerful devices, with nice build quality, will host the best mobile OS.

Then HP will have an easy case to make in advertising-they will have the best devices.

And people should realize that other people's two year contracts expire continually throughout the year.

This is the classic argument between Mr. Right, or Mr. Right Now. We all know which one HP picked, which is why they're not aggressively marketing the Pre 2.

You have to remember this is HP we're talking about. This isn't some small company trying to make it's name in the smartphone market. This is an established technology giant with the resources of Apple and Google. HP wants a return on investment, and they will get it with their phones. The Pre 2 is a Palm relic, not their phone.

Their phone is the iPaq which HP did absolutely nothing with. Why do I get the feeling that HP didn't buy Palm to get into the smartphone business? I'm just getting that feeling. I just don't know why. I mean, it's not as if the CEO said it or anything like that. I must be delusional.

I have that same feeling too. HP lost interest in Smartphones a long time ago. A Tablet? Probably. Web OS on connected Printers? Definitely. Smart phones. I seriously doubt it.

Really, what has HP done to build interest in Palm since acquiring them?

Released new hardware? barely (Pre2?)
Announcement of new hardware? no
Announcement of new software? yes (webos2)
Big advertising campaign? no
Any clever marketing? no

They've done very, very little. I was seriously expecting (at a minimum) some strong marketing push after the acquisition, but we haven't even seen that.

I'm not surprised and I'm sure hp and palm aren't either there betting there money on ces put out a hot phone or two and a hot tablet support them with new apps and update put a lot of money behing marketing them and hop for the best that's there plan

Better be really impressive because I'm ready to drop webOS soon after being incredibly pissed at my Pre.

Last night was the fourth time this has happened to me in the past week. My phone's chugging along, bleeding battery like it normally does.

The first time it hits 50% battery, then drops to 49% about 2 minutes later. 10 seconds after dropping to 49% battery: "Your phone is out of battery and will shut off soon." It's now at 0%. The second time it's at 57% battery, then it goes from 57% to 0% and the whole "Your phone is shutting down soon." The third time is when I desperately needed my phone. It was at 80% and a few hours later (of very light use) it buzzes telling me it's at 20%. I put it on the charger and then a few minutes later step out with it (25% charge). I lock myself out of the house. Make a phone call (now at 22%) Airplane mode my phone until a friend with a spare key comes by (now at 21%). I still need to buzz myself in so I unairplane mode, and then dial the console for condo, which calls my cellphone which then tells me it's no longer at 21%, but it's at 0% and shutting down soon. Luckily it manages to go thru and I buzz myself in.

Last night my phone was at 60% battery. I MMS someone a message. 2 minutes after sending the MMS message I get "Your phone is out of battery, shutting down soon." (0% again).

WTF HPalm. I bought 2 batteries for cheap off Amazon. If replacing the battery doesn't fix it, I'm moving to an Epic or Evo.

Don't wait. You'll regret not having made the move sooner.

I really like the way webOS works (with the cards system and the notifications system). That's one of the biggest reasons I'm hesitant to switch. Android does it sufficiently, but it's still not nearly as nice (though it would be nice to have access to more apps, but it's not that big of a deal for me).

I already ordered 2 new supposedly OEM Pre batteries from Amazon for $10 for the both of them so I'll take a longer chance in it.

But unless HPalm wows me in January, it's off to Android land for me.

I've given up. We've waited for hardware and updates forever. When my Pre battery died after a two hour flight with no use in airplane mode, I had to find my destination without GPS or the ability to call for directions. Sprint replaced the battery, but it still wouldn't hold a charge. On the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, I purchased the HTC Evo. The same apps (Evernote, Weather Channel, etc.) are incredibly better on Android. Not to mention those that do not exist on webOS (Chase Bank, Chicago Tribune, etc.

I was loyal to Palm. I will return when given a reason to do so. But not until.

Sorry to hear your bad experience with the battery. Mine has been great.

I can honestly say that if there is no new hardware by my upgrade come March I will be gone... I hope HP is paying attention and does not make the same mistakes Palm did... I love my Pre but hurry up and wait is getting old...

It is amazing that Webos has not taking a liking twith the masses over the time since it was first introduced. This is an amazing OS for a mobile phone. This hardware could be considered the first official tablet to hit the market with its web connectivity and multitasking. I was ofered by sprint to replace my pre with an upgrade but i dont feel that any other phone out there can compare or is qualified to be considered to be an upgrade to the pre. Even though they offered me 4g phones that can video chat and has a mobile hotspot, i dont want another phone. I want HP/Palm to improve the Pre so i can use my credit. They need to create a 4g pre so that Sprint can be impressed and get them involved again. HP i am waiting for you to do this, then i will upgrade. Then and only then will Pre take a bigger market share. Its funny how Android just took off out the gate. And even Microsoft OS has a bigger market share what the heck!

I guess you must be constantly amazed, then ;) Seriously, a nice user interface doesn't compete with an ecosystem of software (iOS) or an ecosystem of hardware choices (Android).

I hate when people say X = FAIL

But I have to go there. HP's slow rollout of webOS 2.0 and a competetive phone to use it = Fail. More than that, it's an EPIC FAIL.

Not only does HP not offer a competitive phone in its largest market, the US. It is losing chunks of its existing customer base by not making sure that we at least get the latest version of the OS.

I am beyond frustrated. I have sub-par hardware and my phone seems to pick up a new bug a month (the latest is that the list of e-mails in my exchange in-box won't go beyond 5 messages. Delete or scroll past that and all I have is grey with horizontal lines outlining where messaged should be).

If HP really has a large screen phone queued up why in the world would you wait another month to announce it? WebOS 2.0 is ready, why isn't it out? Why does Sprint or AT&T or Verizon control this?

Palm in 08 was dead. Game over. Then came Web OS announced @ CES. Palm was back in the game. But it just didn't have the resources to finish the play. Now hear me now and believe me later, 2011 is the year of HP/Palm. Write it down, take a picture of it. :)

The problem is the distribution channels... If you want higher market share, you can't complain until ALL people can buy the product if they want to. Right now, to Nordic countries, its zip - zilch - nothing, no payed apps, no hardware, no nothing.

I love WebOS but HPalm needs new hardware and the OS also needs some work. Camera options are horrible, apps are not very good, etc. I love the homebrew community but it nly goes so far. I will be going to Android soon if HPalm doesn't step up to the plate soon. By the way I have to get a new phone for 3rd time in a year.

@geekpalm, and possibly others have said it above, but I'll say it again: This trend will continue at least until HP Palm release new hardware, and only if that hardware kicks ass

Tell me, what good is new hardware if they can't push it out through enough channels to make a difference ?

New hardware won't make a difference if everyone everywhere can't buy it and if there are app purchase restrictions in some countries. I just don't see anymore more than "connected printers and perhaps tablets, but that is it.

Palm's dying, end of story. They will get better...."in the coming months." Why don't they release the 2.0 update already for users to try out? It now looks like HPalm wants to lose customers. They're probably expecting a big revenue but is there? NO. If you want to be succesful with a product, you have to advertise it. But before doing that you need to make sure the hardware is good enough to compete with other mobile companies like apple and google. No good hardware + no ads=no sales, no sales=no money, no money=no company.

HP has to wait until they have new hardware.

The masses do not know what webOS is now, and they wont in 4 months. There is no reason for HP to do anything right now.

The 1.3% of smartphone users that use webOS are big fans, and even if a lot of them switch to droid in the next 4 months, they will be back.

HP knows what they are doing with their billion+ dollar investment.

Remember when the razor was a big deal? Things change, and cool stuff is easy to sell.

Let's be real. Who the HELL would buy a Palm phone right now?

The only US network where you can buy a Palm Pre is AT&T. And with rivals like the iPhone 4, WP7 phones, Samsung Captivate (Android), and the Blackberry Torch, Palm doesn't stand a chance. Almost nobody will buy the Palm Pre 2 unlocked - people just aren't willing to pay the price for an unlocked phone.

They're lucky to still have 1.3% (myself included in that number). I'm still banking on CES. Palm - please, please WOW us!

Maybe the answer is to release another tiny screened phone with a clumsy little keyboard.

Oh wait.

I am a former "feature-phone" user with Verizon who stumbled on Palm and webOS by accident while searching for a more effective business phone earlier this year. I currently use a Palm Pre Plus.

I did not choose an Android phone, Blackberry, or Windows 7 phone (which are not on Verizon as of yet) because of the reasons that many of you have listed for Palm

WebOS isn't the problem. It's a problem of ho-hum hardware and a lack of strong apps.

when you don't have visual voice mail, gapless playback, podcasting integration, doesn't sort music well (sees a, an , the), lacks voice recording, voice dial, features in your camera like crop, sepia, b&w, zoom, white balance, format selection; when you can't sync pictures with your google contacts without them blurring, and when you need all those patches for 4x4 icons, menu bars, to add launcher pages, to in general make the OS more usable i think it's safe to say that the OS is a valiant start and shows lots of promise but far from perfect. I think WebOS isn't "The problem." But it's also not remotely perfect and has lots of room to improve. also Just hardware isn't going to fix everything like no apps.

Well said.

The Pre sheep like to think WebOS is better than it actually is.

Things will be fixed.....in the coming months. Keep it up palm and you're going to drop to 0.00000000000001%

cant get much lower than this. we can only move up from here...starting with the release of the palm pixi 2 at ces

i'm part of this decline. went with the epic 4g but i am missing gestures, swiping, & unified text/gtalk/gchat. however, androids speech to talk, text, email, search, and open an app or buried file is needless to say handy dandy. now i can speak an entire email saving me so much time let alone typing! damn if its not all about saving time or being more efficient these days.

each has their advantages but android is better than webos at this point in time. notice i said this point in time.

i refuse to sell my pre as i use it around the house since it still works great on wi-fi. when webos doctor for 2.0 comes out and can then upgrade if i am blocked on wi-fi.

I win either way!

Hey what do you ya know "2.0 or we go" has already started

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5 weeks guys and you'll know whether or not to stick with palm or not jus wait 5 weeks