webOS 'most successful smartphone' for O2 Germany | webOS Nation

webOS 'most successful smartphone' for O2 Germany 58

by Dieter Bohn Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:38 pm EST


After all the consternation over whether (or at this point, how badly) Verizon and Palm stumbled launching the Palm Pre Plus, we and a few of our readers were reminded that Palm is also trying to launch themselves in Europe. Palm hasn't traditionally been strong in the old countries, so how have they been doing?

A few articles back up a general feeling: pretty good in Germany, pretty poorly in the UK.  Heise online (Google Translation) reports that André Krause, CFO for O2 Germany, called the Pre "The most successful smartphone at O2." Credit for O2 Germany's generally good results is their progressive contract (or, actually non-contract) system. We suspect that the fact that O2 Germany's QWERTZ Pre is the only unlocked Pre on the market may also have something to do with it - not to mention a compelling ad campaign.

Things may not be as rosy in the UK. Mike S over at Wirefresh broke down how the UK launch broke down, from the Pre not appearing on O2 UK's homepage early enough, to the well-documented fast that the App Catalog in the UK was (and is) seriously behind its US counterpart, to persistent hardware issues. We might add that the Palm Pre is directly up against the iPhone on O2 in the UK, while in Germany that's not the case 

Thanks to Pete, Wiski, and gizmo21!



hope all of this gets better.

Palm needs some positive press!

the Germany Pre is the 'most successful smartphone', simply due it's unlocked so I can use it in asia...

Same story in Norway as one company here imports the Pre from Germany.

I hate the QWERZ-layout, but at least I have Norwegian warranty and can choose my carrier as I please.

My god, Europe is a wireless paradise, isn't it? ;_;

Try Estonia. The entire country is blanketed with free Wifi. They even have free wifi on the beaches!

I think in Spain we are in the UK camp.

Telefonica is all about the iPhone, in most of the shops the guys not even know what a Palm Pre is.
Even finding it in the Web page "search function" job

They would probably know more about the Pre if people came in to ask about it. But they are probably answering iPhone questions all day.

Cause and effect. It's an issue of buzz among the general populace (which Apple has and Palm lacks), not of a few dinkus wireless shop workers.

Their website has a heavy iPhone slant because "iPhone" is probably what people go to the site to see.

Sad but true.

The difference is that when you buy the Pre for 20 euros per month, you buy the device unlocked! If you buy an iPhone you get stucked to a 2 year contract. You cannot compare buying an unlocked device with buying a device with a two year contract.
The Pre is definitely not more expensive than the iPhone...

In Germany the Pre can be found from 364

Well here comes the funny thing.I'm a stundent in germany. You can get the iPhone via T-Mobile only in Germany. The Palm Pre costs 20 Euro a month (2 years)or you have to pay more than 450 Euros at once. Then you have an unlocked Pre.
Now comes the strange thing. The O2 contract that makes the most sense you can get for 30 Euros a month(have 200 mb of data with unlimted speed and after unlimited data reduced to 16 kbit/s). That makes a total 50 Euros a month. Making a contract for the iPhone you will get almost the same for 39 euros as a student or 49 euros if you are not. So the iPhone is as expensive as the Pre. That makes it even more impressive that Pre was such a bummer in germany. But I would guess germany has most of the palm fans ;)!

I am German and have bought my Pre taking advantage of an offer by O2 valid until march 1st. The package includes the touchstone back cover and touchstone itself. With O2 My Handy you pay 49

I prefer my 481

50? are you sure? i pay 35 with the 200mb+etc. (O2 Inklusivpaket + Internet-Pack-M) so it is cheaper than a Iphone

Hehe perhaps i did a mistake? I have to pay 31 euros contract a month plus 20 euros a month for the pre. Makes for 51 euros in total.

What I have included:

- 100 Minutes of free talking at every national carrier a month
- 150 SMS to every national carrier
- unlimted talking into the german Telefonie network (Festnetz)
- unlimted data (200 mb at full speed after this 16 kbit's)

I'm not saying that you can't have cheaper contracts but if you want to have a contract comparable to the iphone t-mobile contracts then you have to pay more. Am I wrong?

Yes you are. The T-mobile contract that comes with a FREE iPhone costs 119,95

Um... Maybe you should check your math ;) It's actually 30 Euro a month with data (-15 % online rebate) and a one-time charge of about 60 Euros. You even get a Touchstone for free.

If you make a contract you don't have to pay O2 MyHandy as well ;)

Proof directly from o2online: http://img.skitch.com/20100226-pin5p99d4ytt39s7yhfw3ecexb.jpg

Sorry, but which O2 contract exactly are you talking about here? I live in Germany and have a Pre from O2, including a contract. It is called o2o and does not cost any monthly fee by itself, only the Internet flatrate (200MB full-speed, GPRS speed afterwards) costs 10 Euro per month. So it is the 20 Euro per month (2 years) for the Pre itself plus the 10 Euro for the Internet flatrate, 30 Euro total. And this makes it a LOT cheaper than an iPhone from TMobile.

maybe O2 mobile flat + Internet Pack-M that would be 45 .

the cheapest way is 02o and only internet pack m for 23,50 or only the pre for 15

As the link for that German Ad doesn't seem to work, have a fresh link and see how the Pre is marketed in Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsghPc0xoFs

As for the UK, I think as soon as the App Catalog opens here, we just need a fresh push. Something that includes the versatility and games capability of the Pre would be a winner. I think up until now O2 in the UK has been a little too embarressed to push the phone. O2 UK has swept the phone under the carpet quite a bit. With the Apps and games up, I think the tables will turn but it needs a little fresh marketing.

>The Palm Pre costs 20 Euro a month
>The O2 contract that makes the most sense you can get for 30 Euros a month

Is that one on top of the other? If you take a 30

Nope. That is the problem. So it is actually a expensive device in germany but you can use with any carrier that's the cool thing. You have the freedom that the iPhone can't give to you.

Wow wait. First don't be that agressive and second you must select a contract comparable to the iphone from t-mobile and this one isn't...

Exactly. Plus you can get it for around 250

I wonder if this has to do with the fact that the Pre is so open. Europeans seem to adopt open standards more than closed standards. For example, didn't the French take Apple to court about how iTunes didn't synch with non-Apple devices? Do we know how well the iPhone has done in Europe being a closed device?

I think the Pre will do well in Europe because of it's openness. I really do love this device and hope Palm does well. All my friends with iPhones have either never heard about the Pre or have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what it can do, which is a hell of a lot more than a non-jailbroken iPhone.

if palm want the pre to succeed in the uk then the need to support it more. This is why the iphone has done so well, apple don't just put all their efforts into the usa!

the pre is an awesome device and if palm put as much effort into it here as they do in the us then it will easily take on the iphone and droid devices, but this action would need to happen now not later oherwise it will just flop like most things that don't get the support!!


It's too bad O2 is, by far, the smallest carrier in Germny.


but 02 is raising at the moment. I would say it is third because of T-Mobile and Vodafone but E-Plus is crap.
And 02 has the better exclusiv phone(but nobody knows that i think) e-plus has nothing special, vodafone the htc magic and t-mobile the iphone.

Actually I think the German ad campain was very ineffective too. Sure, O2 spend alot of money on it but I think it does not do the Pre justice. You hardly see the phone, you don't see the superior user experience, you don't see the keyboard, you dont see the company logo or phone name and even the price isn't show in the comercial! What you DO see however is lots of scenes distracting you from the actual product. I think many casual viewers that have not heard about the Pre before never got the idea that this commercial might be showing a serious iPhone competitor. I think to make them understand this the Pre would have to be marketed as an iPhone competitor agressively pointing out its advantages since the iPhone is very popular in Germany.

Many Germans are quite open for promising technologies if someone explains them right. Firefox for example has aproximately 25% market share since many people were fedup with Internet Explorer. Tell them that a Pre can do multitasking, doesn't need any iTunes or other prorietary software, has a full keyboard like a blackberry or E71 and is competitively priced and they are bound to listen... Where are the ads telling that?

but u see it nearly every 5 seconds ^^

Yap! You do. :-) But you never see what it CAN DO (Sorry o2!) or the beautiful UI.

From this commercial you cannot even tell that the Pre has a touchscreen...

ok u have

the first is ok but u dont see that there is a keyboard
and the second is crap but it is more a 02 than a pre spot

Ok you are right! I saw the second one on TV alot... Plus my gf still didn't know what a Palm Pre is when I was going to buy one although she had seen the commercial many times. :-)

The first one is actually alot better but still could be improved.

I don't belive how Palm can be so INGENOUS !!!!!!!

Palm PRE must be selled FREE from any contract !! Palm can not be underestimated markets and counties like Italy .

The commercial politics of Palm are absourds . PRE in Germany is Free and is the Best .

Get UP PALM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell that to Verizon and Sprint. They set the prices. Palm only sells to them at wholesale.

Bell's is free, but you need to sign away your life for 3 years with a minimum $45 DATA PLAN (i.e. not including voice)

sorry for some reason my post has been repeated multiple times, maybe i should not use my pre to post!

3rd post edited, sorry!

btw any o2 uk users got the 1.4 update yet? fed up with waiting after those teasing pics!!

In Germany the Palm Pre is directly up against the Motorola Milestone (aka Droid) on o2.

has anyone on o2 uk got the update yet?... Seems the UK is being left out again...

hey lets all download the update using the sprint network and the verizon network and not using wify then
we can compare the time it took for us to finish the dowload so we can compare the speed of each network

hey lets all download the update using the sprint network and the verizon network and not using wify then
we can compare the time it took for us to finish the dowload so we can compare the speed of each network

Some more points:

personally I LOVE my Pre. But I also believe Palm needs to improve in some fields where it does not cost them alot:

First of all ALL the Pres should be sold with the inductive charching cover! It cannot be expensive but it gives the phone a MUCH better quality and eliminates the totally anoying noises from the cheap standart cover. Maybe the people would stop complaining about the build quality. Sure Palm had some problems with that in the beginning but I think those are all solved right now and the quality is just fine! Saying the phone has bad quality is about as fair as saying that iPhones are exploding all over the world. Somehow people forgot about that and forgave Apple so why is everybody bashing Palm? I believe that there are very few phones on the market that scratch as easily as the iPhone! Are you sure that Palm is the one selling bad quality?!

Then I think Palm should have a GLOBAL app store! It is frustrating that people in Europe cannot access all the apps available. Even alot of the free apps are missing here! Plus it takes Palm WAY too long to open the commercial app store here. Why is that? If you have the technology, why not share it with all the world? I mean you don't even have to change it. I am German, but come on! We speak your language...

Third I think it takes Palm too long to bring their products to market after every single announcement. When WebOS was introduced it still took half a year until the first Pres hit Germany! If Palm had announced the Pre just before selling it I think there might have been a great hype about it... Same thing goes for the Pre Plus. Why can't we have it too?

Palm should have given the Pre a micro SD slot. Not because its really important, but because people expect that. After having owned multiple Nokia phones it almost kept me from buying the Pre because I was used to choosing the amount of storage myself and I was afraid that being stuck with 8GB might not be enough for me.

Last: it should have been Palm, not Google, to sell their amazing phone directly, without any contracts. The day after launch. Furthermore you should not anounce WebOS 1.4 long before you can deliver it. On this site you see what it does to people. :-)

Still I believe they will improve! Their product is amazing and Palm is going to get it right!

Palm need to get off O2 exclusive in the UK. O2 don't give a stuff about the pre and a number of people I know have fallen in love with my phone but wouldn't touch O2 with a barge pole.
They've almost hit 6months here now...maybe the exclusivity is up?

There must not be much competition out there... Don't get me wrong, I like the PRE but it's missing a lot of Smartphone Utilities/Functions.

anyone yet?...

There is a simple reason for Pre's success on O2 in Germany (I live and work in Germany). They push the Pre. They ran an effective ad campaign on TV, every shop is pasted with images of the Pre. If you go in their staff push the Pre when you ask for a capable phone (and they know how it works!). They have it on offer (I'm annoyed that mine is on a 20 EUR per month contract for 24 months and now you can get it for 15 EUR per month WITH FREE TOUCHSTONE!!!... damn me and my early adopter obsession). In short, they promote it. The single reason Palm is not doing well elsewhere is because the lazy carriers don't push the product, don't understand (and therefore don't recommend) it to people in the store asking 'what's best for me'.

However, Palm needs to bring the full app store to Germany NOW otherwise I am going to have to take measures!

I can't agree with you, the ad campaigne of O2 in Germany didn't say enough about the skills of the Palm Pre. Maybe there were some Posters on Walls, but they didn't say something of the functionality of the Pre^^ So Ad itself didn't change the mind of some people

The Problems are the 200 apps in the AppStore - not enough to strike-back the iphone Ad

Do any German know where I can write a letter to Palm support and explain my wishes? I only want a Palm Pre Plus, not important if its O2 or another carrier!!!



The Palm problem is only one: 'in other countries, we do not a find Pre'!! And; if find, is a veeeery expensive...

Hey, C'mon... The Pre without contract is not cheap, but is more interesting to many peoples. And more: with contract, is interesting to other peoples, too!! So, put to sell in so many countries that can!!

Here; in Brazil, the Palm is less than nothing... no one knows, no one buy... and the O2 Brazilian Arm, don't know NOTHING about Pre!! For Other side, Milestone; that is more recent, is in all operators stores!!

The Palm is thinking in CDMA (in other words: dead technology!), thinking only in USA... but the World is more that just this country!!

If the first IPhone was a sucessfull, was because the people could buy, unlock and to use in other countries (was GSM!). I believe that more than half IPhones 2G selled, has gone to out of USA...

But I Can to do this with Pre too? Noooo... Only in German (with "Z" versus "Y") or in Mexico (Veeeeeryyyyy Eeeeeexpeeeeensiiiiveee).

Well, was this: while the Palm think as a small company, gonna be a small company... if wake up to global market, who knows...

Best Regards...

Out of interest GigaS27, what smartphone Utilities/Functions is it missing in your view?

The ability to view/edit Documents is very important when it comes to business. I know we can currently view, but even the viewing currently is really bugged (not the best). I know it's not all Palm's fault but these things are important in a business perspective.

I know it seems as though the word Smartphone has changed over the years, but i still feel it means for advance business use and this phone lacks in certain areas. I'm sure one day it will be up to par though.

BTW I'm not here to start a troll war.

The reason is surely that O2 Germany pushes the PRE with ads in television, on the homepage and meanwhile a lot of people in Germany know the PRE.

But on the other hand you know that a smartphone in nowadays needs an app store full of interesting and also funny apps. Here Palm needs to improve dramatically and fast. Even also the problem that we here in Germany / Europe always get everything later then the US market (especially now the paid apps) is a strategic mistake of Palm.
They have a carrier here in the old world that pushes the PRE intensively but sooner or later the phone needs apps.

But to be honest: I have the PRE since the first day (13th october) and never met anyone that has also one. This is a little bit frustrating. So where are all the people that bought this phone??

you've spoken like my brain is doing it all the time xD

It doesn't take a market genius to figure out why more Pres haven't sold on Verizon...it's because as soon as it hit the network, everyone who did 2 seconds of research most likely heard there was a big updating coming and decided to hold off until Flash was working on the device and that update was out. All you have to do is read all these various comments pages all over the web and you can pretty much glean that from there...the early adopters are taking a "wait and see" stance for whatever reason. Not only that, but a lot of contracts probably aren't ending in February, so one might think that there aren't a lot of people willing to break their current contract, especially if they're waiting for this super huge update that they aren't sure will ever come (even though it will, and very soon from the looks of things, people understandably have their doubts).

The lesson here is that if Palm wants the Pre to be successful, then they must make the Pre accessible and usable to buyers. Germany is the only source of the Pre for most the world, including for Malaysians like me, because from elsewhere the Pre is locked. And even then, we cannot recommend the Pre to others because the app catalogue doesn't work for us. In some countries, like in Sudan where I travelled, even the unlocked German Pre does not work because it wouldn't recognise the SIM card from there.

Actually, the news aren't that impressive, because Mr. Krause only said that it's the most successful smartphone on O2, which isn't a huge achievement I would say. So far, O2 only carried Windows Mobile smartphones and some rather bad Android models, which weren't really advertised at all. The Pre gets a lot of advertising and since O2 is offering it, they also offer this new kind of contract that got incredibly popular and made a lot of people switch.

wedding dresses,wedding gowns,bride dresses,bridesmaids dresses,evening dresses,bridal gowns,flower girl dresses
Wedding Gowns
Formal Gowns
Cocktail Gowns
Find the wedding dress designer and wedding dress that's right for you! Browse dresses from
Bridesmaid Gowns
Evening Gowns
View our selection of exquisite, handmade gowns and dresses for your wedding
Wedding Dresses, Wedding Shoes and Wedding Accessories from wedding shop, the UK's finest collection of designer wedding dresses.
Use the wedding dress and
cheap wedding
wedding dresses
wedding shop