webOS Needs a Developer Phone | webOS Nation
 
 

webOS Needs a Developer Phone 69

by Jonathan I Ezor#IM Mon, 14 Dec 2009 3:15 pm EST


[Image via Engadget]

Over the weekend, numerous press reports (such as this one from sister-site Android Central) have been brewing about the "Google Phone." Whether Google intends to brand and market it to the public is still an open question, but what one thing that does appear to be settled is that the phone is meant to be a developer phone, as happened with versions of the G1 and Magic before it. All the buzz reminded us at PreCentral that we haven't said this stridently enough yet: Palm needs to release a webOS developer phone sooner rather than later.

 

Whatever the price for the device (and without a carrier subsidy, it could be significantly higher than those of the Pre, Pixi and even other Android devices), being able to purchase it as a standalone unit, without being tied to a carrier, will help developers explore and expand its capabilities. Consider how many of the major homebrew and App Catalog webOS developers have had difficulty getting actual Pres (rather than emulators) of their own, like PreCentral's own Jason Robitaille in Canada, webOS Internal's Rod Whitby in Australia, and Dr. Alan (PalmDoc) Teh in Malaysia to name a few. While they have still produced stellar webOS applications using the SDK and emulators, they have often not been able to test the user experience directly until long after their apps hit PreCentral or the App Catalog.

While Palm cannot compete with Google's marketing power or economic resources, it could substantially boost developer interest and creativity and its own market share by following Google's lead and releasing an unlocked, carrier-neutral webOS smartphone. The expected price differential would reduce or eliminate any likely cannibalization of its consumer market, even while small and large developers throughout the world could create, test and show their applications. (As an added bonus, the developer model could be marketed as well to frequent world travelers, who could maintain their environments and be productive no matter where they landed by simply switching out SIMs.)

One thing is clear: Palm will not gain significant share of the smartphone market by remaining conservative. That was what it did for years with the PalmOS, and it came close to liquidation as a result. Instead, it should pursue both technological and business innovations like a developer-centered webOS device to both establish loyalty and gain media and investor attention.

69 Comments

wow, 4 emails in the 5 minutes after I posted asking me to fix them not being on: guess you guys have something to say about this!

(fixed, and sorry!)

Ahhh! An adroid phone! My eyes!! Haha but I'm actually considering getting that phone (codename:nexus one) its suppose to be a beast and have 2.1, android is maturing quite quickly.

Jay got a Sprint Pre but wasnt Palm that gave it to him.

I agree that developers need an easy way to get a phone for developing on, preferably discounted from the full price.

However, I don't agree that it needs to be a different phone like Google has done in the past. The Pre itself already has the developer features built in. Why bother with another separate device when you can do it with the actual thing?

Why?
WebOS has an excellent emulator

I'm going to reply to my own comment and elaborate. While I feel it would be a great thing to see a WebOS phone free from carrier restrictions.

Palm definitely has done an excellent job in providing a platform that allows developers to develop without owning a WebOS phone. I know for a fact some of the homebrewers don't have a Pre or Pixi.

Sometimes, there are bugs and glitches that are only apparent when tested on an actual phone. I'm sure Jason could chime in, he had to rely solely on the emulator and other people to test his work before he received a donated Pre.

So, rather than saying "We want a developer phone!", how about "We want a better emulator!"?

Why? did you really just ask that? you must not be to tech savvy... Emulators are great tools but a device may act some what different than what the emulator will...

Wow. It's all over for Palm, just after it began. Don't mistake it - THIS is the killer phone, boys and girls. Mojo had promise, but Google has sealed the deal for me. June 2011 I'm headed to whichever carrier (Google?) has the Google phone.

You're trying too hard.

THIS is the killer phone, for you. Fixed that for you.

I think what you're really asking for is a better emulator.

What's the point of having real hardware, when an emulator can be more rapidly and widely distributed? And it's free!

Emulators can only do so much to simulate the environment, the user experience and most importantly the connectivity of a device, particularly one like the Pre or Pixi where bandwidth changes from moment to moment. It's also harder for developers to really test their apps in the kind of environments users will face, both physical and software. (Consider how many issues Palm itself missed in its limited beta testing of the Pre before subjecting it to the realworld stresses of a user community.)

Additionally, developers can be among the best possible evangelists for a platform, if (a) they're energized by it and (very importantly b) they've got a sample to *show* people at conferences, meetups, etc.

Finally, you're missing a key point: emulators may be free, but developer/unlocked phones can be a *profit center*.{Jonathan}

Alright, I'm convinced. :)

I don't think it will happen, however.

Emulator runs at a speed that is not in parity with the device. This makes games that really push the device seem fine, when on the device they are terribly slow. One of many incompatibilities between the emulator and device.

I'm more than familiar with this issue. I was rather dismayed when I did original testing on the device...

GPU access should fix that, however.

Not really. Depending on the speed of your computer, the emulator is either slower than or up to 10x or more faster than the actual device. The only way to address this is use some type of throttling to actual speed on the emulator.

I think if we pick at a small nit we can get to the core problem with using the emulator: It's not an emulator. It's a virtual machine.

If palm truly had an emulator you'd be able to use WebOSDoctor on the virtual device and get a working "phone". As it stands now it's a hacked together x86 Linux implementation with a near-perfect port of LunaSys/WebOS to the x86 architecture.

I was speaking to the performance issues of my app, specifically.

Though you are indeed correct to say that it does not apply for all instances.

Ha-ha-ha!!! Could've fooled me Dieter! As of the release date of the very first Palm Pre I would've figured that this phone was already for developers and not the masses!!! LOL!!! Sorry -- I had to giggle -- though I know that technically it is not a developers phone. Though seems like the only people who do understand and tolerate this phone are developers and average smartphone users who are loyal to Palm.

I'll let you in on another joke.. okay... ready... WebOS in spanish translates to "penises".

:-)

Guess we lost the Spanish market on this one guys!


By the way the GUI so far looks hot! I would definitely consider buying the phone 'if' it lives up to all the hype!

"I'll let you in on another joke.. okay... ready... WebOS in spanish translates to "penises"."

That's not even remotely close to correct.

Oh really?!? Care to elaborate??

I assume you're referring to "huevos," which I suppose could sound like someone pronouncing WebOS, which in fact does not translate as you suppose. The literal translation is "eggs." The slang interpretation can be inferred from that. It's not what you suggested.

Well -- like I said WebOS translates to "penises" in Spanish. If you'd like to be literal... I will correct this by saying: "the very popular Spanish 'slang' way of saying 'penises' is 'webos'.

:-)

As in, I like my men's webos hard!

Read byhumba's response. That person typed what I was trying to avoid typing.

I gave you the literal translation only because I'm typing this at work and thus don't want to type certain words, and I figured you could make the link from the literal translation to the correct slang translation.

You mis-translated by just inches, but it really changes the translation!

If we're to take the actual slang meaning you were trying to refer to, then we could say that Palm has chutzpah.

'Huevos' in Spanish means eggs, which in Spanish is also used as a slang word for testicles. It's the English equivalent of 'balls'. It does not mean 'penises' at all. Not in Mexico, South America, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Spain or any other Spanish speaking country.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HUEVOS&defid=1450573

LOL!!! Well... you can drop Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, and Spain off your list! Cuz we all spell it "Webos" not "huevos" when it comes to slang. In order to differentiate slang words from literal words we learn to take the 'h', 'u', and 'v' out and replace it with 'w' and 'b'... how do I know this??? Because as a child growing up with Castilian Spaniard: Puerto Rican and Dominican families (father being a top latin chef of a five star restaurant) I was corrected 'properly' on how to us the slang and the literal version of "huevos" and "webos".

Your "wikipedia" urban dictionary is not as urban as you think it is my friend. Looks and sounds like it came straight out of suburban Nickelodeon'ville. Try the Bronx instead!

:-)

The End!

You are a merchant. I choose to believe that you do not know what you are talking about.

I'm an actual Puerto Rican from Puerto Rico. I've been living here my whole life, and I guarantee you that not once have I seen it spelled "webos". Huevos means eggs. In slang it means "testicles", similar to saying "balls" in English. The letter W in Spanish is very rarely used, even in slang. Unless of course you're talking about people of Puerto Rican descent in the U.S. who have learned English as a second language from their parents and have little or no spelling knowledge. The most prominent slang version of "huevos" as testicles I have seen is "guevos". Also, it meaning "penises" is completely wrong. Huevos is slang for testicles because testicles are egg-shaped. Thus, having huevos mean penis makes no sense at all. Good Day Sirs.

...Talk about off-topic discussion.

'Guevos' sounds more like people from the tattered edges of Mayaguez.




webOS

:-)

"I'll let you in on another joke.. okay... ready... WebOS in spanish translates to "penises"."

Here is a little Spanish lesson for you...WebOS does not translate to penises in Spanish, or even come close to it. WebOS sounds like the word "huevos," which literally means eggs. However, the slang word for testicles is huevos.

And which Latin American Country are you representing Professor?!?

webos = huevos = balls = nuts
this is what it means in south america, and central america
lol

Thank you South and Central America for your contribution!

It does have a dual connotation webos = nuts & penis in most Spanish speaking Countries.

:-)

Surely this should be quite low on Palms priority list. I hope they spend the time expanding the SDK...That'll make developers even happier than a dev phone!

There is a big difference between Android and WebOS. Android gets all the press about being open, but it is locked down unless you jailbreak it or get a developer model. There is nothing on WebOS to jailbreak. To make a regular phone into a developer phone, type "webos20090606". Bam, developer phone.

Now the question is about testing apps. Some apps need a real device, rather than an emulator, even as the emulator improves. However, many things can't be tested on a phone that is only running the one test app. This has been discussed quite a bit in the private pre-release forums where the only way to try the new WebOS versions is WebOS Doctoring. Most developers only have their main phone and possibly a Pixi. However, I agree with some that said it wouldn't really be testing the software and your program if it isn't in a "real" environment with cell service, etc.

I'm writing off my Pre and Pixi, plus service, as a business expense for development. It doesn't take many sales in the catalog to pay for them. But that is just my view.

+1 for pointing out that *every* Palm WebOS phone is a developer phone, once you enter the correct code. The whole reason that the other manufacturers have to sell a developer phone is because the non-dev phones are so tightly locked down.

People who think you can develop and distribute a tool that is tested on an emulator don't know what you are talking about. There's nothing that can obviate the need for testing on an actual device. One of the reasons why development for iPhone is so successful is that a developer can purchase an iPod Touch for less that $200 and it will run the latest iPhone OS.

Palm is not going to release an quad band unlocked GSM (which is what your are asking for), because palm doesn't want to service their phones. It's the carriers responsibility to service the phone, and palm doesn't have the resources to be shipping 5 replacement pre for slider issues. It would also violate any exclusivity deals they have if they released an unlocked phone. For the few people who will buy a "developer" version, it's not worth the effort.

> palm doesn't want to service their phones.

And this is on record where? Point to anything anyone at Palm has said, even anonymously, that supports this claim. Show us that it's more than armchair analysis.

Palm has a history of releasing unlocked phones--every GSM Treo since at least the 600 (ok, except the 500, which was a redheaded stepchild anyway) had an unlocked version. And the GSM Centro too. And the WinMob models were not only quad-band GSM/EDGE, they also had tri-band UMTS/HSDPA (3G, in other words).

The question is whether Palm is keeping with this history or making a change. One could make a case for a change, though I for one hope that they maintain their tradition. In particular, I'm hoping that they offer an unlocked, tri-band 3G Pre (even if it's a little more expensive to support that radio) once the exclusive with Sprint (and maybe some/all of the rest) expires next year.

And that's why you shouldn't believe rumors.

1. If Google subsidies it, the public won't ever see this device. It does have things most cell phones (except Nokias) don't have like an FM radio, AMOLDED, etc. So game changer - yes... in the sense that more manufactures besides Nokia will pump their phones with more hardware features because developers will now write for it.

2. Probably.

3. Likely half-true. HTC is working on the Bravo which looks just like the Nexus-One. There's also been seen on paper the Passion and Passion/C, which may be GSM & CDMA devices respectively which also look like the Nexus-One.

More important is the issue of a dev phone. As a registered Android developer, I will be able to get the Nexus-One. But I have to shell out more cash in addition to what I paid for my (now rooted) G1. But if all I had to do was enter a code, still get support from the manufacturer (mine is void now that I've rooted), then it's a no-brainer.

An emulator won't do everything. In addition to what's been said, you need a real device to test location based apps. There are things you can add to the emulator to "emulate" this, but users of your app won't be forgiving if it doesn't work the same as it did in the emulator.

You do not need a dev phone. you can root it you can put in developer mode. Your warranty will not be void since you can doctor it back to factory settings if you need to return it. No voided warranty. the point of a developer phone is mute. google has another motive for the push of this phone.

First lets analyze apple and google. They provide merchandise that leads to one point -> their product. Now lets specifically look at apple from the bottom up. They appeal to the young crows with the ipod nanos and touches. Look at their commercials it is all these young hippy kids with a catchy song. Looks like apple analyzed the beetle phenom to a T. So now you have a group that connects to your product. Why would you do this. Well it gets you introduced with apple. Apple tried this back in the days when they flooded the schools with their macs and apple computers. Back then their plan was not as good as it is today. So you buy the less expensive product (ipod touch, nano, iphones) so that it leads you to the more expensive apple product line macbooks & imacs. You also so more people with apple products and the simple mind follows what it knows worked in the past and then extrapolates it to the other apple products. You see each apple product connects to the other. There is very little overlap in the peripheral components of apple but there is some overlap in the central components of apple so that they can seal the deal. It is like a drug. Since most people do not step out of what is their norm -> they stay with apple without looking at other options. As long as apple works for them, they will never search for the better product (price and functionality). Apple knows this and limits functionality for stability so as not to cause anyone to jump ship also they provide you with a visually appealing device. This limits apple from the business sector. Looking at it blindly you would think that alienating the business sector would create problems and loss of revenue. Actually, it is just the opposite. The business sector does not provide that much profit margin to computer companies. Think of it like car companies selling their cars in fleet to enterprise and the city/state governments. They actually do not make as much profit compared to when they sale the car to the public. The mark up price is significantly higher for the regular person. Some mark ups for their cars go as high as 20k difference.
What does this have to relate with topic you ask?
Palm just sticking with phones is a dead in road concept. Coming out with another phone does not stop apples stampede on the smartphone market. Apple will overtake the phone market if things continue as they are now. They start you off with the nano, touch and then you graduate to the iphone which then leads you to the macbook.
What we really need. Palm needs to incorporate itself into the mobility market. I am not talking about just phones. They need to push for portable pc market. Why not mobile media devices like mp3/mp4 players. Well that market is a ballon waiting to bust. Currently, your smartphone can do that and more. It is only time before the mobile media devices go bust. Cellular is king in that arena & it is only time before reality catches up with the mobile media device makers. Soon (less than 3 yrs.) everyone will have a cellular and there will be very little need to have a pager, mp3 player, mp4 player, camera/camcorder (none professional quality). Nobody wants to carry multiple small devices when they can have one small device that can do multiple things.
Now lets focus on the portable p.c. market. Who is there now. Really only windows is their currently. Who currently working on being there in the future only windows currently. If you think apple will be there, you are wrong. Why would apple want to build a device that is in the $600 range and loss revenue of selling you a $1200 device. Those people speculating about the apple tablet do not understand the apple philosophy. They will not make a true portable p.c. at the $600 range. They will make a peripheral device like the iphone in the $600 range to compete against the kindle. It will not have the mac os x functionality. It will be strictly for the web, ebooks, probably multimedia. It is a device once again to lead you to the central apple product line aka macbook & imac. What happens if palm gets into the arena of portable p.c.. Well they only have windows devices to compete against. Too bad windows still has not learned from apple. Windows device manufacturers still build devices that appeal to techies. Their devices have none artistic/fashionable design. Their devices have geek written all over them. Reminds me of the windows mobile days. You could have easily seen that the windows mobile device could be over taken just by looking at their boxy design (straight out of the brick cellular phone era).
What you need in this device:
Has to be slim (think of a semifull fedex envelope). It has to be rigid. Single body design (no windows flexible cheap design here). Sturdy enough to be carried with one hand front has glass and back is one solid piece as well. No slide out keyboard.
Needs to have cam, speaker, mic. 2 usb, bluetooth, wifi. battery charge like the touchstone (no plugs). No jacks (there can be a separate usb dongle for external speaker and mic jacks) (you can also have a usb dongle for the video out component or you can have a minidisplay port). There is a single power button that has a slide cover to protect it from inadvertent touching). You also need multitouch 11 inch screen with a border around it. the fan port is designed like the back of imacs (small slit). HDD is ssd (no more than 32gb). The battery is removable like the design of the older unibody matchbooks. You can not be portable unless there is a replaceable battery because it defeats the purpose. operating system is web os but you can have more than one card displayed at one time like 4 quads or two quads with a simple gesture. Can provide you with the functionality of any windows p.c. with office on it. The os has to limit software like apple to prevent compromise of the system so that it can limit the amount of problems there are with the system (freedom comes with a price and that price is instability). However, the technology has to keep up with the times. Basic gaming functionality but nothing major to take away from the portable battery saving functionality. There can be a docking station with external keyboard and blueray or dvd. The dock also has to be artistically designed. Lastly the name. Something catchy like EU (said you) PC. But then you will need to change the smartphone so that the concept all interconnects like apple (iphone, imac, ipod) note the hidden message.
If you want palm to stick with just smart phones then just seal their death right now. Concepts like walmart and apple win. Isolated functions have no future thus they die (aka blackberry). Appeal to everyone or you will go down (looks do get you far). Look like a winmo, android, or blackberry phone and you soon will go down. Curved edges, artistic look, looks like it is from nature not from some geeks dream. Do not give me that boxy feel and that flexible cheap design. Make it feel solid and sturdy. Not heavy but yet has some weight. I like the palm look. Looks like a shinny black pebble/rock. Do not like the slide keyboard because it takes away from the unibody firm design. Could have done without the entire back of the device coming off. Better if it just have a battery compartment door. Back should have been metallic solid firm design not the plastic peace. Screen should have been slightly bigger and the device slight skinnier. Central button should have been removed and the gesture area slightly smaller for more screen space. Usb port could have been placed on the bottom or back for extra functionality. Hopefully, palm rolls out some games so that palm can entice some of the younger crowd into the palm camp and away from the apple camp. Also can not wait until flash can be put on the pre.

Some constructive criticism:

Please, if you're going to type something so long, break it up with whitespace. It makes it a LOT easier to read. Just hit ENTER twice between paragraphs. It makes a bigger difference than many realize.

You should write for precentral!

This is the first time I'll be able to write this in a non-joking way, so congratulations. Ahem...

tl;dr

Do you ever read?
Just think health care 2000 pages and my statement maybe one page. I guess you will never know what other people do in this country unless someone reads it to you? Get some independence and start reading. It might help you one day.

Good comment, but hard to read (I agree with adding more spaces between the paragraphs). I think you have a good point with expanding Palms products, but the device that you are describing sounds like the unborn Foleo. It didn't go anywhere and I would be surprised to see Palm take that road again in the near future.

It seems to me that Palm could expand on their product line and offer more options much like the various Android phones. There should be a phone in Palms line up that appeals to different types of users. The Pre has a slider for a compact design that still has a useful QWERTY keyboard and the Pixi is the intro phone for newbies.

I think that the next Palm product should be a phone with no physical keyboard. It should play off the sleek designs of the Pre and Pixi, as well as highlighting the user friendly WebOS. If for some reason Palm was to revive the Foleo (only after a very successful product line), they should make it like a tablet PC with a touchscreen.

Foleo was not really what i was thinking about. More like a full pc unit not an oversized pda like what winmo did in the past before the foleo. That flopped long before the foleo (Sharp Mobilon TriPad PV-6000). Did not have real functionality. The device could not overtake the laptop. It was several times weaker. I am talking laptop power in a tablet slate. Basically what they have now but in a skinnier and better form factor (none geeky) without the resource windows hog running the device. Keyboard are ok for one hand devices but not for tablets. That take away from the unit sturdiness. I have owned several tablets samsung q1, fujitsu 2010, gigabyte m912, toshiba. The best portable one is the q1 but it still needed more power & ssd but it was close. Also needed multitouch. Iphone do not have kb and they are doing very well. I think it may be better to develop voice recognition than to keep the qwerty when texting. physical qwerties in mobile device have very limited function.

It is so funny when I walk into starbucks with me q1. I turn it on and start to work on it with my bluetooth kb and mz. Those college students sit there and their mouths just drop. You can see them thinking is that really windows running on that thing. They stop playing with their macs and large dell laptops. The windows peps state they want to get one and the mac peps tell me that mac will come out with a tablet soon (yea right - now that is what the foleo was but apple will find that it is a flop). I love my q1 it is great but it had a significant amount of short comings but it was definitely knocking on the door to a hit.

1. White space, please!

2. A very astute comment. However, if you look at what Google is doing with the development of their Chrome OS, you can bet your bottom dollar they're already looking at something like this.

3. The crackberry fanbase is no less rabid than the Apple fanbase, niche development is very possible and can be very profitable, but you have to be exceptional within your niche. Blackberry has done this very well.

king, you're right on with what they need to do as far as their next device. I'm pretty sure the tablet pc with webos will be a huge hit. you describe pretty much what I have envisioned it to look like although I would possibly put a slide out keyboard with a tilt screen to about 30 to 45 degrees from sitting on a table. but hey they could do two versions of it. one with and one without. because it seems there is a pretty good split between people who like and dislike physical keyboards.

webos seems like the perfect fit for something a little larger like an 11" tablet though. and it needs to be done soon before someone else hits bit with the same idea.

This Google phone looks just like another clone from HTC, like a Hero with a straight bottom. This phone design is NOT AT ALL EXCITING okay ? Being mostly Palm developers how you all can get excited about another Android clone like production beats me. Are you all mostly high school kids ? Or early college drop-outs ? All these Android clones look like those big long generic tv remote control devices with glass panes. You can buy them from Radio-Schack. I hope Palm mgmt. never releases the WebOS source code to you all Yahoos. That will be a suicidal step for Palm. Did Apple do it? No. Did RIM do it? No. How come they become successfuls? And both iPhone and Blackberry look more elgant than those Android clones. And Palm's Pre and Pixi are both light years ahead of any dRoidian clones in looks, forms,designs etc.. I hope Palm continues to develop the WebOS much better than anybody else's and allocates its limited resources accordingly. Remember, earlier Palm lost its market-share not because of lack of apps.(there are more than 30,000 apps just based on PalmOS), but because of lack of development of the PalmOS itself which couldn't support features that competitors started introducing. Palm now should only introduce products which distinguish themselves from all other competing products in looks, forms, designs, features, useabilities etc.

Another food for thoughts for you developers; what happens when a mobile OS gets a very poweful browser which can handle all those web functionalities that can be directly accessed through websites, would we need then that many apps. ? For example if I can go to a website and play some game which is on the website, do I need that game app. downloaded on my smartphone and use up memory spac?

And you developers seem to be guys on testosterone but little less on nitric-oxide on the equipment, so you really need not much of phone in a smartphone but a handheld computer, a logical extension of Palm's PDAs. See what Palm mgmt. have in their minds for you all.

Did you cut yourself after writing this? If you plan to insult the intelligence of a group of people, try not to sound like a "webos."

This article, although demands for a GSM developer phone have been made in the past, smells of panic and desperation. How many times has Palm being accused of doing Me Too tricks?

If Palm releases a developer phone just to counter an aggressive move by Google, then, it has already lost. I don't mind a developer phone at all. The argument listed by other users are sensible. But I disagree on a Palm developer phone just to match Google.

Marketing-wise, it's dumb for Google to kill the hype behind the Droid which itself had killed the HTC hype and so on. These products' limelight is so short that people will tire of the next iPhone killer phone coming from Android. You can only cry wolf so many times.

How long will the Google phone be the star product from Android before something else comes along?

I too want to see an improved and new Webos phone from Palm. But I don't want to see another me too act. I want Palm to show me the next game changing smart phone and leap ahead of everything now. If that means no developer phone because of lack of resources, then it is the right decision.

The point of a webOS developer phone would not be a "me too" effort; it would be because it makes sense no matter who has (or has not) done it before. Being able to roll out a device internationally without waiting for carriers, and being able to enable developers to better build and test webOS apps regardless of where they live or from whom they have their cellphone service, would be a plus for Palm without requiring a huge amount of hardware innovation. It's a business decision, not a technical one. {Jonathan}

Developer phone vs no developer phone does not provide much of any benefit. why is the sky blue versus any other color who cares. Iphone was not built up due to the app catalog. It was built up by what it could do. Apps help but the iphone provided the spark. You need to attract people to the phone. Provide basic functionality, ease and beauty and people are hooked. Previous palm had tons of apps but that did not help. So get off the slow train. We need a phone that can provide the hook. Don not ask for the egg if you do not have the chicken. Start with the phone and later we can talk apps. The phone has not taken off as it should. We need to make sure this phone brings people together. They have to be happy to show their phone off. Has to look nice. Has to be stable. Has to allow full connectivity to the net. has to have the ability to bring people together like you see in the apple commercial when the group of three play one game together. No more antisocial or socially handicapped individuals with a palm pre. No techie fav phone because that gets us no where but down. The developers can not provide the solution. The answer lies with palm. Those droid developers do not have a clue. Apps will not be the main push for google. It overtake windows easily but that will not help google take the lead from apple. Cool and google just do not go together right now despite how many celebrities are on their ads. Then 100k, 1000k, & 1 bil amounts of apps are for geeks. When you decide to buy something you want to know does it work flawlessly, does it has great functionality out of the box, is it nice looking, is it what everybody else has, do they keep up with the times. The problem that palm had was it did not keep up with the times. its web offering was crazy awful. email even worse. the phone was built for isolationist. had several apps but you could not interact with the social network (internet and emails). Interaction with the device was also old school tech. So in conclusion create a great phone and make a solid os then we can think about developers. The current system is not broken and it does not need to be fixed. Concentrate energy on what matters. spread of the phone to other networks and functionality/aesthetic/social advertisement. seriously do not go to other networks without a video standard function (what are you thinking). email, full net, video, exceptional texting (interaction with the device with ease aka on screen kb/voice recognition typing and interaction with others with ease and a full gamut of capability), games/apps that bring us together so we can show off the pre. This stuff needs to be built in standard not developed by outside developers.

Also give me access to my cloud while I am on my PC/Mac so that I can have a backupand also So I can dictate what will be automatically installed/settings on a refresh of the phone.

Like the use of space generation do you? Here is a one time deal since you guys always ask for spaces in between my paragraphs.

The point about the spaces it just to make it easier for people to read your writing. I'm not trying to be an irritant. I'm trying to let you know an easy change that will make a big difference in the number of people that will read what you write. You clearly put a lot of effort into your comments. Just a little more effort will make more people read it.

The best writing in the world will go unread if there isn't enough whitespace. You make a lot of good points in your writing, but a lot of people will just skip it when they see huge blocks of text. I figure you care about this since you clearly put time into your comments.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk.

Webos is walking in the valley of the shadow of death. Unless they have a Hail Mary up their sleeve or Nokia makes a grab for them now. I fear that Palm will be no more, right next to Windows Mobile. I for one am leaving the Sprint and the Pre behind.

I was telling this to Palm back in August! Good to see it is brought up here as well now. Lots of comments... Probably a hot topic :)

EDIT: Glimpsed through comments. Looks like some men don't understand why we need such a phone. Well, not everybody lives in a country where Palm distributes or plans to distribute their phones. But such people want and are perfectly capable of developing webOS apps. For them, having an unlocked phone is a perfect opportunity to jump in and start coding apps that aren't possible to create using emulator only. How many of those there are? I don't know. But I know that even one man can create a killer app. So please, don't ignore such developers.

What most of you fail to realize is that there is no substitute for testing software with the hardware upon which it will be deployed. I'm a software test manager. We use simulators to test protocol communications with various vendor casino management systems. However, each vendor implements the protocol slightly different with its various features. Without testing against these systems, we can never be sure that our software will communicate in the way that the vendors' systems expect. And lo and behold, we've had problems with our software not communicating in the manner that these systems expect, even though we've take great care to implement the communication protocol per the specification and have tested it against the specification.

So, while having a developer be the only person testing the application s/he wrote is not always the best testing, it does allow the developer to verify a variety of things on the actual hardware on which the app will be deployed prior to releasing the application for beta testing or submitting it to the app catalog. Especially memory issues, lag, internet connections over the air or Wi-Fi, usability, etc.; the emulator screen on a computer is larger than the phone's screen, so what looks fine on the emulator, may be too small for the phone screen. A screenshot, properly scaled down is a suitable substitute, but neither it nor the emulator allow a developer to test screen taps, swipes and other gestures with a finger. An app that works well on the emulator, but doesn't work well in the production environment, makes the developer look bad, certainly means the app will get bad reviews and people won't purchase it. Future apps from the same developer may suffer in sales because of a poor reputation, not because they are bad apps.

Lastly, there are simply some things that you cannot test on the emulator, primarily the accelerometer (really, are you going to tilt your monitor? And if Palm does put this in the emulator somehow, can you turn the emulator screen as fast as someone can turn the phone?) and GPS. You need the hardware to ensure apps using those services work properly.

So, I agree that there should be a way for developers to get the hardware even if they can't use it to make a phone call. With Wi-Fi, they can still test apps that require service to access the internet or other online services.

And for those of you saying what Palm should and should not do for future products and devices and such (like huevos), this article was about providing developers with hardware. There are other articles and forums where you can make those comments and opinions without cluttering up the comment thread with stuff that doesn't pertain to the topic at hand.

Do not see why we need an physical emulator of the phone. Really a waste of resources. They have not needed in the past and they do not need it now. Google has other intentions and testing is not one of them. There is emulator software and you can put your phone in developer mode so the point you make is mute. The entire article point is mute. Google will come out with their own phone and will gradually eat away at the htc and droid since they do not need them anymore. They will have an os that will interact just fine since they make it. Google is a trojan company that slip streams its product in without providing a direct challenge. Google will not emulate what windows did by providing software but no hardware. Windows did that and they failed miserably. Google started off with providing their software on phones as a starter but they will more than likely wait for the dust to settle. After the dust settles they will pick which design is the best. They will make their own phone and indirectly kill the other google droid phones. Kind of smart, not to spend your company money in the rod of what works and its advertisement. I suspect Google will be more of competition for apple than microsoft. I truly suspect that microsoft will be a dead company unless it can implement itself more in our daily lives. Winmo failed, zune failed, windows is getting more expensive and plagued with problems. Google is working on an os and it is also working on peripherals that we need. It is buying companies left and right so that it becomes the next big thing. I suspect they will also do this for the portable pc market once their os matures. Microsoft has been doing the same thing since its inception and when it tries to branch into other areas it fails miserably. TIC TOC TIC TOC

I would love to see a new OS on here. It definitely needs an upgrade or a new one. I would love to see one.
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One thing is clear: Palm will not gain significant share of the smartphone market by remaining conservative.
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but what one thing that does appear to be settled is that the phone is meant to be a developer phone, as happened with versions of the G1 and Magic before it.
cara meninggikan badan All the buzz reminded us at PreCentral that we haven't said this stridently enough yet: Palm needs to release a webOS developer phone sooner rather than later.

Yes that's true now WebOS needs a developer phone. Pre Central always have some useful information.

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