webOS suffering in developer and consumer mindshare | webOS Nation
 
 

webOS suffering in developer and consumer mindshare 136

by Derek Kessler Thu, 28 Apr 2011 5:11 pm EDT

We keep saying it, and we’ll say it again: HP’s new devices and unprecedented marketing assault better be coming soon, because it’s getting rough in webOS land. We’ve got two reports to look at here, one from the developer side of things, and the other from the consumers, and it should come as no surprise that webOS mindshare numbers are trending down across the board.

First up in Nielsen, with the consumer side of things in the United States, where their poll for “next desired operating system” (i.e. on what platform the surveyed would like to purchase their next device), webOS has dropped from 2% of respondents to just 1%. While those numbers are low enough and close enough together to be statistical anomalies, they do reflect the general feeling we’re seeing with regards to webOS: nobody knows it’s still around. Android, meanwhile, clocked in with 31% of respondents, 30% are going for iOS, 11% to BlackBerry, 6% to Windows Phone, and a statistically insignificant 0% for Symbian. The good news for HP is that 20% of those survey were “not sure” what their next device would be, meaning there’s still plenty of customers they can try to woo. But fighting your way up from a 1% mindshare ain’t gonna be easy, and it ain’t gonna be cheap.

Additionally, Nielsen looked at the phones purchase by recent smartphone buyers, where Android accounted for an astonishing 50%, iOS 25%, BlackBerry 15%, Windows Phone 7% (ha), webOS 2%, and Symbian at 1%.

And now for the developer side of things, which comes to us courtesy of cross-platform app framework builder Appcelerator. They surveyed their registered developers (which, for the sake of full disclosure, are more likely to be iOS and Android developers by virtue of Appcelerator’s offerings) and found that just 12% are “very interested” in developing for webOS phones, while 17% are very interested in making apps for webOS tablets. As you might expect, only Symbian and Meego ranked lower than webOS as far as these developers are concerned, and obviously iOS (91% iPhone, 86% iPad) and Android (85% phone, 71% tablet) dominated the poll.

Obviously, HP has plenty of work to do to build up consumer and developer excitement for the webOS platform. We know (hope) they’re doing a lot of behind-the-scenes prep work before the big relaunch party when devices are actually available. Right now iOS and Android are chugging ahead at full steam, Windows Phone 7 is doing surprisingly well, and BlackBerry is threatening a resurgence (though we wonder about their ability to truly execute). The next few months are going to be interesting.

136 Comments

We know that HP reads P|C but doesn't anyone know how they feel about articles like this? Even if they don't / won't comment on release dates, carriers, form factors don't they feel compelled to discuss public perception of their product?

It amazes me that we don't really see any response on this type of survey from HP.

Thoughts?

my thoughts are a company can't go around responding to negative news business news all the time. it puts them in a bad light. when they have to fine like a product that may be a public danger or something. But HP is a printer and laptop company with growing enterprise business. Right now fixating on phone problems probably just belabors a point they already know.

it's a big problem but i don't think a smart company points out it's own shortcomings for no good reason. They should be addressing them behind the scenes. Now whether they are actually doing that is another issue. those are my thoughts.

*signed*

If you respond to something like this you just create more buzz around it and multiply the bad effect (very much like that letter that Mr. Elop wrote to his company did... This was the moment when even the last Nokia-Fan realised that they are sitting on a dying platform).

A Smart company, which I assume that HP is, tries only to talk about the positive things and fixes such issues, as you said, behind the scene.

I'm not sure I agree with that. HP has done very little to please their current base (which in a way shouldn't matter because we/they were such a small number to begin with) and also done very little to generate hype and anticipation around their upcoming products.

I'm curious about the results from the surveys after their Feb8th event, when Precentral's comments were swarming with people disappointed with what HP had to say.

They need to dialogue with potential buyers. Inspire some kind of confidence because as we can see from polls taken in the last year there is none.

Another reason why they need to get their **** together regarding webOS is that they're betting a lot on this OS to make them some serious money in the enterprise department and with consumers in the mobile space.

I'm hopeful the new webOS devices get out very soon and the hardware can square off against the competition.

But I'm also open to the fact I may need to consider something else if things don't live up to reasonable expectations.

How long have you been typing those words? 6 months, 9 months?

I love webOS. But I waited and waited. I heard Leo say they wouldn't announce anything that wasn't ready to sell, so I waited for February expecting that a larger phone would be announced and available in March or April.

What I got for waiting was zip, nada, nothing. New devices with no release date in sight and no assurance that when they did come out Sprint would be one of the carriers. No update to webOS 2.0 and word that I wouldn't ever be able to upgrade my Pre -.

Finally in March I gave up waiting and got myself an EVO. Android is inferior to webOS, but not that much, and the hardware is miles ahead of the Pre.

HP might be able to get me back one day. But they are going to have to show that they can release phones and update webOS on a regular basis before I come back.

You sound just like me, except I haven't jumped ship...yet. I love that I can truly multitask on webos, but the hardware does suck. I also have a Pre- and the lack of developer interest in webos is why I plan on switching to Android. Maybe the EVO 3d when it comes out.

Bankerdanny, how hard was the transition from webOS to Android?
I have played with the EVO in sprint stores, and android doesn't seem as great as webOS.

Surprisingly easy.

Some things still drive me crazy like 3 steps to delete e-mail rather than one and the apparent inability to put my internet bookmarks in any damn order I please (the only options appear to be alphabetical or frequency of use).

But those things are far outweighed by the vast number of apps, the 45 second cold start time, and the incredible speed in which apps load. My overclocked Pre- can't come close to the speeds of my EVO.

I also love the multiple home screens and widgets. 75% of the Pre home screen was wasted space to me. I know some like the clean look, but I would rather have instant access to more programs. I love the giant clock widget that come pre-installed as part of the HTC Sense overlay that allows me to see time and weather at a glance. The calander widget that shows me appointments on the main home screen like my Blackberry and Treo did.

WebOS is better and more elegant overall, but Android is still a terrific OS.

Do you still try to dismiss notifications by swiping to the side like I do? Or swipe up to bring up the launcher?

webOS offers a much better user experience, but Android has the enterprise apps.

Perfect Task Switcher simulates the card metaphor so you can flip between running tasks easily, and Wave launcher simulates the quick launch wave with more functionality than the webOS version.

Those are two webos-inspired services I cannot live without.

I took a shot with the Pre hoping the apps would come. They just didn't. For a second go around i think if they launch with out significant app growth it's gonna make it tough. Apps are a must for me. Without them i wouldn't buy a tablet.

It doesn't sound like they get it though.

I love my Pre Plus. But I’ve only had it for a year and it’s only been out for two years and HP won’t support it with OS updates. How can I justify investing in another HP product? I just ordered a iPad. The TouchPad sounds great but I need a product that will still get updates after two years.

that would be because THERE ARE NO WEBOS DEVICES OUT!!! What am i gonna develop for a palm pre that never caught on? Oh i know a Pre 3 that we've been talkin about since february and might not see until August. Maybe ill make a killer app for the Pre 2 which you can only get online if you even know it exists.

LETS GO HP RELEASE THESE PRODUCTS!!!!

your lucky im hopelessly addicted to the WebOs Experience

You pretty much summed it up for me! I have a day one pre and it is DYING a SLOW death. Everything is failing on it (hardware wise)WTF am I supposed to do? I'm not even sure it's coming to Sprint. I personally don't see how I am gonna hang on and wait.

My wife and daughter just got new refurb Pre's at a Sprint Corporate store. $35 bucks each. My wife's lost touch at bottom left of screen and began "touching itself". My daughters keyboard just quit. They got the refubs on the spot and they were nice enough to move the pics and stuff over too! So, that give us a little more time to wait it out.

Thx a lot! I'll give it a try.

Frankly its HP fault for not releasing any products sooner than later! I really don't think WebOS will explode in the market share.....then I could be wrong. WebOS is a fun OS but c'mon with the waiting game is very old, very lame, and shame on you HP!

Well, it's a double-edged sword. If they released early when things weren't in a finished state, we'd be complaining like crazy about how buggy things are. They're trying to deliver when they're ready and we're still complaining like crazy because it's not soon enough.

I can't help but wonder if they failed to dedicate enough resources (people) to deliver on a shorter schedule.

just release the devices market them and the people will buy them the developers will follow

Done right those trends could change direction very quickly and webOS could be the 2nd or 3rd player in what is going to be a 3 member game. HP just needs to come BIG and NOW. There is opportunity, however, that window is closing more rapidly than it was 6 months ago and whomever is going to round out the field besides iOS and Android will probably be determined within the next 12 to 18 months max.

I continue to hold out hope that HP is about to drop a nuclear bomb on the world with a rapid release of hardware choices on multiple carriers in the US and abroad and a tight cohesive OS that show the power of HP and the vision on interconnectivity that we keep hearing about. Fingers Crossed :)

I'm sorry but if you think webos can top the iphone you are delusional. They MAY reach 3rd in popularity but i doubt it.

What pare of my post indicated that it can top the iphone?

When you said second player

I could have given you those numbers without doing a survey.

Not surprised.

Ahhhhh yes the good ol "To get apps you need hardware sales but to get hardware sales you need apps."

Have to admit, I'm considering the Galaxy S2.
- Pre3 has little appeal to me
- Touch Pad might be my Tablet of choice though

Right now I'm just waiting to see what the iPhone 5 is, and -hopefully- by then see what this mystery slab phone is by Palm. I'll decide from there.

Touchpad over galaxy tab 10.1? Just wait until you see the size difference and touchpad is 60% thicker and 50% heavier. I have a xoom and it's too heavy to hold up surfing/emailing for long periods. I can't imagine how unsuccessful an even heavier and thicker touchpad will be with average consumers.

I agree. I'm getting ready to jump ship myself. I'm probably going the iPhone route though. Didn't HP's CEO say before the announcement in February that products were ready to ship and there would be no more of this "in the coming months?" ......Waiting for Flash, strike one, waiting for WebOS 2.0 on my Pre Plus, strike two, CEO saying products will be ready to ship that obviously has no idea what he is talking about, strike three. I'm still rooting for WebOS though and dying to know how they are going to "make it right." By not giving any details on how they are going to make it right leads me to believe it's not going to happen.

Everyone started at zero. The only time to despair (as most people here love to do) is when HP throws in the towel on webOS. Besides, anyone who thinks they know where the market will be in two years is delusional. Where was Android two years ago? Where was Blackberry two years ago? Where are both of them today? I can guarantee you nobody saw Android's ascendancy coming. There is still time for webOS to rise, and I guarantee you no one will see that coming either.

They only managed their massive growth because there was no competition in the smartphone are other than the aging Blackberry, Windows Mobile and PalmOS. The game has changed and if HP doesnt release something fresh (pre 3 and veer are not) there isn't a chance for them. Besides who would realistically chose a veer over something much superior?

You're only looking a few months into the future. The Veer won't be what revives webOS, it won't be the first in the last set of devices HP will release.

Nobody's really looking at anything that HP's doing...at all. That's kinda the point of this article.

You know how many millions of people still don't have a smart phone? There is plenty of room for WebOS to exist and do well. It's jut up to HP to make that happen. Time will tell.

they all won't buy phones, all won't buy smart phones and reason dictates that of that percentage you'd only get around the percentage you get now which is merely 3%. Not enough to sustain the business.

Yes they will. The carriers are pushing everyone in that direction, like it or not. When you can get a pixi or some other cheap smart phone for free, why wouldn't they.

Why don't they now in the US? "Free" smartphones are either available through carriers or through Amazon or Wirefly. HP made the last generation of WebOS free for months now, Pre and Pixi.

If HP doesn't make products that are attractive at $199, they won't be significantly more attractive for "free" either.

I hear people say this, but the people who haven't bought smartphones are not waiting for a magical product different than what is already on the market. They haven't bought them because the monthly bill is too high or they see no need for one or some other general reason.

If and when they come around to buying a smartphone (or getting one free on contract) they will buy generally according to the trends and marketshare currently in place. The only way to change that is to offer something radically different than what is currently out there (like iPhone did in 2007). WebOS does not fit that description and has had everything from its notifications to cards commodified by competitors, especially in the tablet realm.

So what? Do you think Apple, HTC, Samsung, Motorola and everyone else aren't fighting for those same potential customers? Non-smartphone buyers aren't some hidden, untapped resource that only HP can target.

HP's not starting from zero, however. Lots of developers have tried the platform and have been forced to leave in order to eat. Lots of customers have tried the hardware and been soured with endless refurbs, or worse, been cast aside with no upgrade path of either hardware or software without switching carriers.

HP is "starting" from a deficit. WebOS rising is hardly impossible, but it is also nowhere near probable. It becomes less so every time that they give a vague release date, confuse developers, or send Rubinstein out for another frustrating interview.

With all the changes coming to webOS, it might as well be starting from zero. Lots of developers have tried the old platform, but it is rapidly becoming a new platform, one that will be unrecognizable to those who left in a few months. Evidently Palm was going for a reset, and HP is betting this reset will pay off by committing to new webOS devices in all sorts of form factors.

Odd, tho, that this interest from everyone has only depressed/dropped after they announced their future products and when they planned to release them.

Starting from a deficit is well stated. They're not starting from zero brand wise. They chose to move forward with a negative brand in the Pre. And surprisingly, chose to shrink the Pre form factor into a new Veer.

Yes but you can do the same question also for webOS
where it was when born 2 years ago? where is now?
still where it was. Indeed, it lost market share, so it's going worst.
my idea.

You are correct, eyerone started at zero.
Except, a few left the gate a few years ago. HPhorse still @ start...

I'll start off by saying I love webOS. Once you get past the learning curve, it's really easy and fast to develop for.

As a developer, I'd have to say that I am not so interested in spending time relearning the new SDK framework. I already took to time to learn Mojo.

The lack of new devices is a turn off also. I am locked into Sprint from the first Pre. Now what I want and don't want is my choice. HP/Palm has provided new devices for me to work with. I do not wish to break contract or switch networks. I don't have time to create nor, do I think I should have to create a Franken-Pre.

It really is a share that Palm choose to put out low quality hardware first time around. It seems like their relationship with Sprint has been extremely bruised because of it. All of us early adopters must live with the fallout. All of early adopting developers must live with it also.

Let all hope things turn around because, all is lost if they repeat their past activities.

Don't have time to create a Franken-Pre? It takes an hour at most.

Palm's hardware was on par with what was available the first time around. The real shame was no real update for two years.

Umm.. no. My dad's (inherited from me) Edge iPhone is holding up perfectly except for the buggy firmware he's stuck on so he can use it on Tmobile. The Pre that I used from Sept 09 to Nov10 has a stress crack on the bottom corner, the headphone jack cuts out when its wiggled when headphones are plugged in and the slider sucks. So no, its not even on par with 2007 technology.

We don't need a graph to know this. webOS is virtually starting over at zero. Good luck HP, your challenge is great.

in a nutshell:

There isn't enough developer interest --> It's b/c there's no new hardware announced --> There will be more interest after the Feb 9th announcement --> no interest --> It's because the hardware isn't out yet --> Hardware is out --> no interest --> It's because the advertising isn't good enough and the carriers aren't pushing it

Interesting that from the consumer adoption point of view, the trend is down for everyone except Android including Apple while the trend is up for those who 'aren't sure' if they will buy a phone in the timeframe surveyed. My guess is that the economy is surely playing a role in customer decisions about buying a smartphone. If their current one works, they are likely to delay getting a new phone in hard times.
As for webOS, its down a huge amount but off of a very low number of customers compared to the others. Uncertainty about the new devices and the fragmentation would put people off of buying a webOS phone in the timeframe of the survery. The upside is that once the new devices hit, it should have a faster rate of growth than the others as it is starting from a such small base.

Additionally, the fact that 1/5 of those surveyed are unsure of buying a smartphone suggests that choice of phone may also be volatile, giving webOS an opportunity to snag some of these customers once the economy rebounds.

For the developer graph, the growth rate for WebOS tablets rose slightly in the time frame surveyed while interest in all the other systems took sharp declines, including Apple (the debut of the TouchPad in Feb probably positively influencing interest). I'm wondering if the economy as well as the uncertainty in the competitive market as new tablets are introduced is playing a role and developers are waiting to see what shakes out as most promising before committing resources.

everything will be fine they'll start selling those phones and tablets in a big way trust at that point all they have to do is hit up the big developers and be like i told u were goin to back our products with lots of marketing and now that there selling how about those apps we were talking about six months ago when will they be ready

like microsoft

Its not so simple. The hardware will not sell without apps. And developers will not get onboard without users.

This is no surprise. What's up with all that HP scope we heard about. They move too damn slow!

Hi all,

HP has repeal said that they were going to pay to port apps, write apps if they have to and pay to original apps written....they also said they were going to load the TouchPad full of native apps....good thing HP has TONS OF $ b/c they will need to peel of with some of it & soon!

Mind you, I am usually the super positive cheerleader glass is half full person here...so all I can say to hp is MOVE YOUR
A_ _ES

take care,

Jay

Two salesmen are sent to sell shoes in Africa, one sends a message, it's terrible, nobody is wearing shoes! The other writes, Wonderful opportunity, they don't have any shoes!
The good news is that 20% "not sure" are an opportunity for WebOS to make an impact.

I think it is wishful thinking, at least right now, to hope to get much of that 20% of the undecideds. Most likely they are undecided between iOS and Android, and *maybe* BlackBerry.

I'm rooting for webOS big time, but it's going to take a huge sustained effort.

20 percent "not sure" doesn't mean that they are waiting for a magic OS or handset to come along to rescue them from iOS or Android. The vast majority of that 20 percent simply hasn't made up their mind between the LEADING CHOICES out there. It's not like they're equally considering Android and, say, Symbian.

Its a bad cycle of the phones not being in the stores, the ones in the stores are fake demos or worse, just a sticker and the device needs shipped. I know if i walk in and try to buy a pre 2 in verizon right now it is not there. I am told there is a 3 day shipping period. I can buy a plethora of android phones though.

HP pay me! put me on the streets instead of some mini coopers al sticker-ed up. ill get up close and personal in somebodys face and sell them on webOS. Im serious i will!

Its all due to nobody knowing it exists, nobody being able to just pick up and play with a device. Everyone i know in Pittsburgh that i hang out with i put down with webOS and they all love it. They need more people in the streets and less confusing billboards.

oh yeah and pre 2 on sprint 8 months ago would of been nice too. shame on sprint. I spit in their eye!

Actually, some very important people know that the current HP devices exist (Pre 2).

They're called the carriers. They are not big fans. And they are the gatekeepers in the US.

Like many commenting here, I want webOS to succeed in spades! I love Palm and webOS. I've been a Palm guy for so long and my Pre and Pre Plus were the first phones that I LOVED BIG TIME! That said, my primary phone as of 2 weeks ago is no longer a webOS phone. Precisely because of the paint-drying cycle of Palm (now HP) and the whole "coming months" thing. Well the months came and went several times over and when the Kyocera Echo came out on SPRINT (no less) I had to give it a go. I must say 32gb of memory, thousands of apps and a nearly 5" screen are making it hard for me to miss my webOS phone even though I think webOS rocks. I think this Neilsen report is spot-on.

seriously if im not mistaken you got an echo. How is it? I'm personally waiting for the evo 3d and every day i hate my pre more and more.....

All of the naysayers on the Echo are likely ATT and Verizon geeks who can't get one because its a Sprint exclusive. Seriously... here are my thoughts after 2 weeks with the Echo (got it 3 days before official release as a Sprint Premiere Gold member/whatever):

I love this phone! 2 years with a Pre and Pre Plus and I couldn't load more than about 1000 mp3s, had to view only mp4 video (hated that), and the book/reader and doc editing apps on webOS were all substandard.

The Echo has been awesome. The same Kobo book app looks just like the iphone's book app (bookshelf, highlighting, notes, etc.), and I can watch video in any format, at any resolution, and I get to edit docs on a near 5" screen. What's not to like?

Sure the OS isn't webOS but the trade-off is serious customization of the 5-7 homescreens with widgets and shortcuts, and some great apps that aren't yet available for webOS.

Bottom line, the Echo is a great phone. It is like 2 phones in 1. When folded down it feels smaller (and is smaller) than an EVO 4G (which I tried for 2 weeks last fall and hated) and when folded out has almost the same resolution as the XOOM tablet (albeit a different configuration -- square vs. rectangular). The only thing I don't like is the virtual keyboard. No matter what anyone says, physical keyboards are way more accurate.

So, it's a trade-off -- the webOS OS for the awesome versatility of the Echo. I'm sticking with the Echo until webOS has a dual screen phone... which is likely to be never.

My app sales results confirm this. I'm doing much better on the BlackBerry PlayBook than I do on WebOS with the same apps. And there's only 50.000 or so PlayBooks sold!!!

WebOS is currently as dead as a doornail. I really do hope HP will revive it but at the moment it looks grim. Really grim.

I want WebOS to succeed. Come on HP give it all you've got!

we need the PALM DUDE (masked) to fire up. IF HP isn't in the game across multiple carriers in multiple countries by Christmas retail season of 2011, there demise will start in 2012 even though ALL that stop into this board know how great of a proudct HP/PALM 'could be' if only the equipment made it to market. HURRY HP --- this HP DISCOVERY EVENT better be the start of the blitz or the bleak predictions the industry is making might just happen~

HP executed the masked dude for trying to get people fired up about webos

I work at a insurance company and give quotes via phone. I was talking to this guy from japan living in CA. While waiting for a fax to come over, I asked what he does for a living. He said graphics designer, so I asked if he was in the mobile part of things. He was suprised I asked and said "you hit it right on the head". While looking at my Pre- I asked him what he thought about Webos. He said he loved how open it is to write for and the ease of writing for WebOs but he said what we all know. There is no ecosystem for it and no good devices. He said I don't want to develop for it until those are in place. He develops for Android and IOS. In a nutshell HP needs to get on the ball. I put a deposit down on a Sprint Nexus S yesterday and will be making the switch but I will keep my eye open for HP to "make things right" and would come back to WebOs when there are more apps and better hardware.

I've been using Palm products since the mid-90s and I purchased the Pre Plus as soon as it came out on Verizon. I loved it at first and now, I am sad to say, my next phone will definitely be an Android phone (most likely the Samsung Galaxy S2 or the Droid Bionic).

Reasons:

1. Lack of apps. There are some big ones (Sirius XM comes to mind) and a lot of smaller local ones (such as local newspapers, etc.) that are not available for WebOS. After a while, it starts to really suck.

2. Flash was coming in early 2010. Never happened to 1.4.5.

3. WebOS 2.0 OTA update that never happened.

4. The "sometime in summer" Pre3 specs are behind some of the Android phones that are coming out now.

5. No voice integration/dialing.

I love Palm and WebOS and I hope they can turn it around. If they can, I would go back to them in a NY minute. But for now, it is time to try something new. Sorry Palm.

WebOS 2.x has Voice Dialing and Flash (and webOS on the Pre2 is really fast). The gap in apps is there and will take longer to close. Whether more apps is worth using an OS that is not as easy-to-use and powerful as webOS is a tough call.

Android and iOS will have more apps than webOS for the forseeable future - however, HP is working to integrate webOS devices together (using a single profile) in a way that noone else is really attempting (at least not yet). Apple would probably be the closest to doing that type of integration but they are stuck in the PC era where they tie their services to iTunes instead of the cloud (that might change). Google has some integration but only on Google services (gmail, contacts, calendar).

If HP can move their product, the apps will come. But a lot depends on whether they can come out with compelling products on a regular (even accelerated basis) and successfully market their products. We'll know a lot more in 6 months time what the odds look like.

Scotland,

I understand. But for now, I cannot access WebOS2.0 unless I either buy a Pre2 (and, given the Pre3's soon to be arrival, why would I at this point). In short, I'm stuck!

Palm/HP have been asking us to wait (for Flash) and wait (for upgrades) and wait (for new devices). That's a lot to ask of your customer base in this environment. If you want to hang on, more power to you. For now, I'm choosing to try another company until they -- hopefully - right the ship.

Would everyone prefer HP bring to market decent products, delivering a rewarding customer experience, or instead follow the RIM/Playbook path?
Also, there was a time when Apple PCs dominated the PC market. Look how that changed over time.
Have some faith. HP is in this game for the long run. Not just the sprint. No pun intended.

Why can't they follow the Apple path of bringing mature, well-built GREAT (not decent) products to market in a timely fashion?

It's fine (and true) to note that the long run matters. But in the smartphone market, long prosperous reigns almost never come from disastrous beginnings. All of those platforms (iOS, Android, Windows Phone 7, Blackberry) ahead of WebOS were ones that launched, held momentum and only went up from there. WebOS sales only ever DROPPED from the first quarter they were available on Sprint (check Palm's quarterly earnings from June 2009 to the HP acquisition. It's true), and now developer interest has dropped off too.

At some point, it's just throwing good money after bad. Microsoft could've thrown another billion behind the Kin brand under that same thinking, but they smartened up, and amputated the gangrenous limb.

Eh... MATURE? It took several iterations until iOS even got multitasking, 3G and copy-paste!! Since when is Apple releasing "mature" products? The first iOS phone I would even remotely consider buying is the iPhone FOUR.

And your predictions about the smartphone market are a bit naive in my opinion. Nokia, the world's largest phone manufacturer, is not among the top platforms. So connecting "disastrous beginnings" with future success doesn't really make sense.

The first iPhone wasn't slated to be a "smartphone". it promised great media playing and web browsing and delivered on both. The 3G did the same for the "App Store" and "Apps". And so on....

As to your point about naivety, I didn't say that success or a reign at the top lasts forever. it doesn't for anyone. but the point is Nokia GOT THERE and did so with steady growth. WebOS only ever sunk after launching. That's the difference.

It's funny that it has taken over 4 generations for Apple to fix the horrid notifications system. Why did it take them so long to listen to their fans?

Sure, it has taken them that long for notifications. Meanwhile, they got browsing right...right out of the gate. Same for media management and playing. Same for UI fluidity. Same for stability. Same for build quality. Same for form factor. Same for apps. The first generation they offered any of those features, they pretty much nailed it.

Two years later, WebOS got....notifications and task switching right. Still waiting on the rest.

It takes Apple about a year to make a new iPhone/iPad and bring it to the market every year. And HP brought the Pre 2 last year (although Feb in US market) and will bring Pre 3 this summer. Thats really not a long time. And they are bringing the HP Veer 4G to ATT this May it looks like. Then after May, prob June - Aug the Pre 3. This is more products being released then Apple. They do three products a year (with iOS). iPod, iPhone, iPad. The only problem is people want the Pre 3 and TouchPad today. But as we saw with the PlayBook rushing a product to the market does not make it better.

i've bought hp products and they suck. so no i don't have faith in hp. it's not a religion. But no i'd rather they follow the android model. license the os and sell tons of phones to tons of people in tons of form factors so developers have tons of customers to sell apps to. they can sell 2 phones to nobody if they want to but they aren't apple. you can make phone if you spend years developing a brand and build of an already established extremely successful product like the ipod. If not you better have a lot of phones.

I'm surprised that HP has not advertised their current products at all (Pre2, which is a good middle of the market phone - and by that I mean that it's much better than the Blackberries that many folks and businesses buy). They've basically let their current market and mindshare decline to practically nothing, choosing to focus and prioritize the launch of their products (Veer, Pre3, and Touchpad). I'm not sure why they made the decision to handle it this way - I believe it would be better to go into the launch of their new products with a stronger base.

We'll just have to see. These surveys, and the analyst surveys, tend to be fickle and just focus on what is hot at the moment (a couple years ago when the Google G1 was out, for example, Android got no respect; now it dominates future marketshare projections...) The developer numbers (especially for the Touchpad) were quite a bit higher than I would have expected given that HP has very low sales at the moment. HP has to be happy about that.

As I've said before, I can only hope that HP has the product pipeline full. They have to be in catch-up mode and be working on next-gen hardware designs in parallel (for example, TouchPad2 should come no later than 6 months after TouchPad1) if they really want to win at this game. Their HW specs for the first round of products this summer are behind the competition and the only way to catch up is to have more frequent product refreshes. So far their software roadmap (from what we know and what we can speculate on) looks good - they just need to execute.

NO SHIT EVERYONE IS LOSING INTEREST IN WEBOS! There haven't been any real new devices in almost 2 years. The pre plus and the pre 2 don't really count as new devices because they are nothing but spec bumps.
RELEASE THE SLATE PHONE AND THE PRE 3 ALREADY!
I really don't give a **** about the veer it's too tiny. Stop wasting everyone's time HP.

WebOS, rest in peace. You once (a year or so ago) were part of a dream.

Now, you are just a grim reminder of what never will be.

HP cameras will be waiting for you on the other side.

This is ridiculous again to worry about HP's ability to sell its mobile products to consumers ! For heaven's sake just look at the news today about that HP was selected by NASA for a cool $2.5 billion contract to equip 60,000 NASA employees with necessary infrastructure. So there you go, 60,000 Pre-3 and 60,000 TouchPads going to NASA. If I were a clever developer I would have prepared myself to be able to write utility apps which come handy and useful to the corporate users, as well as consumers, so the users can't live a day without using those webOS apps. And HP sells worldwide. Damn ! HP is too big to fail. Just think, among all the companies that sell computers, HP is the biggest ! So in another 2/3 years HP will be the biggest in mobile computing too. Android and iOS , my foot.

LOL. You think NASA is issuing a $2.5 billion contract to equip employees with cell phones and tablets that can use Touch-To-Share to pass website URLs back and forth?

Personal computing in this case is for Windows machines (PERSONAL COMPUTERS) and servers, primarily.

HP is "too big to fail" precisely because they have a range of income streams and aren't dependent on WebOS or tablets.

Yes,,,,I think now with every corporate sell HP will try to push TouchPad/smartphone combo pkg. to go with their 24/7 connected cloud servers wherever they feel it would be appropriate to do so. Also sooner than you think TouchPads/slates sells will overtake laptop/desktop sells.

I'm sure NASA is looking for "cloud connectivity" and smartphones OSes missing huge swaths of important corporate apps. Yeahhhh.

Also, as someone who works for one of HPs largest corporate clients, I can tell you that the sort of bundling you're envisioning is unlikely. Our laptops are a combo of HPs, Lenovo, and Apple. Our printers are HPs, Epsons, and a few other runts here and there. Out phones are Blackberries, but when tablets are ordered, they are always iPads.

Remember, HP took the place of the previous leader and another will take HP's place.

And, it isn't like NASA is just buying whatever HP will give them. Really, do you think that NASA is going to accept anything other than reliable and proven hardware?

Do you have an HP tramp stamp or did they brand you?

Why do you think HP will supply NASA with unreliable/unproven products ?

No, HP didn't make me their brand ambassador, I just like Palm (now HPalm) products.

LOL. "Thanks for the $2.5 billion contract. Now, here's are our smartphones that nobody wants and our tablets that nobody ever heard of"

Before making further silly comments just watch and learn how HP does it ! They didn't become world's largest seller of computers by selling dumb boxes, right ?

Fricken NASA! Another damn budget waste.

Hey, how come no Android maker got the deal, eh ? Grapes are sour ?

I wondered when precentral was gonna put this report up. Hopefully HP has all there ducks in a row and soon because it beyond rough in webos land for a day one pre- user.

I bet in 6-12 months HP will licence out webOS. There is no way in **** they could ever get new users with such a poor display of phones. They don't seem that interested in phones. It shows. Their better late then never mentality is not helping out either. The 'Pre' form factor is a snore and the guts are gonna be a step behind when they finally do come out.

I'm waiting to see what HP is gonna pull out of the hat, a rabbit or a skunk??

Get crackin HP, you're about to slide in at 0%!!!

should have done it from the jump.

HP has to climb the Everest uphill. They better release the keyboard less smartphone with cpu dual-core and 8 mpxls camera .That is smartphones market standard in this moment.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for HP's problems with webOS:

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In 2004 the Washington Post revealed that Hewlett-Packard had "deferred taxation on $14.4 billion of foreign earnings, [thus lowering] its effective tax rate from the statutory corporate income tax rate of 35 percent to 12 percent." It's getting worse. According to dailyfinance.com figures, HP's U.S. income tax rate was 4.3% in 2008 and 2.3% in 2009.
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Just like the rest of corporate america, they're doing just fine gaming the system--and controlling the system--at the expense of average citizens. And just like the rest of corporate america since the "Citizens United" ruling, of course, they ARE gearing up for a future major investment and marketing campaign: the 2012 elections.

This one looks like taken from an excerpts of a 3rd world communist manifesto ! Blah, blah, blah,,,yeah, yeah, yeah,,,the corporates are all looting our country !!

Ahh, some good 'ol fashioned red-baiting from a politically ignorant reactionary...feels like old home week...

Ever take a look at Googles effective tax rate? It's alot lower than that.

Interest in releasing webOS versions of big name apps have never existed except for very few exceptions. Seems like many of the homebrew guys lost interest too. I think there's a large number of patches that are abandoned and will never see it past 1.45. Missing the glass effect patch.

Touchpad + Pre³ combo would be awesome assuming it ever becomes available to me and apps numbers increase substantially. The lack of webOS hardware options for most customers doesn't help either. You can get a Pre+ on a few carriers but there's no point as its unsupported tech brand new. Pre² would be a better option but that's not even widely available or marketed.

I'll say it again. WebOS for the enterprise and by the looks of it, the only enterprise company that may end up using it is HP internal, Heck, they could have saved $1.2 billion and stuck with the iPaqs on Windows for their employee mobile solution.

oh well... losing interest with each passing week and am starting to wonder if I even need a TouchPad, Veer or Pre 3. Well, I know I don't need any of them; but HP's approach thus far is making my want fade. I have realized I am fine with current hardware which doesn't include a tablet.

They need to change the name of the site to NegativeNancyland.net even the front page is suicidal lately. This article summed up some "duh" news and is a disappointment. Gotta do what you gotta do to drive refreshes, but this article was just lame. Even if they would have came it from the angle of where is the dev interest with the Touchpad and Pre3 hitting the FCC it would have been more interesting, but all Derek did was regurgitate Engadget's post. Lameness. Get the Latest video of the Touchpad on the front page comparing it to the feb 9th videos. Talk about how the veers launch party is showing as canceled. Do not just regurgitate commonsense gibberish. You have been getting less and less of my views lately.

link to latest TouchPad video please? How latest are you talking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocujTVCvhnY

Was posted on April 14th. There is prob a newer one out there somewhere, but in that video it is flying compared to Feb 9th.

So this isn't news, but a random video of a controlled demo that is better than one two months ago is?

The front page is hardly negative. For every ONE article they run like this, there are TEN on promo codes, developer spotlights, and app roundups. They're essentially wringing blood (new news) from a stone (the complete lack of progress by HP lately).

Just because they choose to cover ALL things related to WebOS instead of just the ones that sooth owners' feelings doesn't mean they are negative. Far from it.

webOS has had abysmal market share for the last year. This was hardly new news, and as a current pre user I was disheartened by the Touchpads performance at the Feb 9th event and relieved when I saw the video.

But HP not only released a new device globally, but exclusively in America to a carrier roughly twice the size of Sprint that already had a good number of WebOS users on it. At a lower price than the original Pre as well.

The conditions for the Pre 2 seemed pretty favorable for marketshare maintenance at the very least, and expansion at the best.

I wish they would have another developer event in the US, I'm graduating in May, and my dad said for graduation I could go on a trip for a gift, it would be really cool to go to one.

Almost as bad as Symbian but Symbian is an really old OS that is retiring and Nokia has WP and MeeGo and s40 HP just bought and it is failing now that has to fell bad.

Phones released beginning in May
Touchpad, beginning of June

I wish the touchpad had a little more **** appeal to it, but hopefully now that they have the question of "how do you make webOS work on a tablet?" answered they will be able to spit out different from factors quickly like samsung did with their refresh post iPad 2 launch. I still feel the software is what is holding webOS back right now and that is ok as long as they do it right. People should be getting excited not complaining. Its not like they said in Feb that they would launch in June and then pushed them back to Oct. They said spring/summer and it looks like they will be here in that time frame with no iPhone competition. Not only that but we just had a slab leak not to long ago. TIMES ARE ABOUT TO GET INTERESTING!

Im soooo very close to transferring to the Galaxy S II (Andriod) this summer... I have the first Palm Pre from sprint and its killing how far behind I feel compared to my friends.. I cant get certain apps, I cant video chat... :( Ive been with palm since the treo 650 and I love the WebOS but they definitely have to catch up faster. This summer Andriod is coming out with Dual Core processors on their phones... geez! What to do, what to do?! Wait for the Pre 3 This summer for Sprint or just go with an Andriod.. Im waiting just to see what Palm bring out. Im rooting for Palm/HP. Make me proud..

Galaxy S 2 has as many carriers announced as the Pre3 so you have some time to make your decision.

PS the Galaxy S 2 was also announced in Feb so maybe palm is just running with the industry standard (not that its right).

Well, I just hope they get more functionality into the pre3, im curious as to whats coming after the pre3 cause thats the one they really have to make everyone want and step it up. But I love the way the WebOS works, its just pure sexiness. I think I just feel they have forgotten about me because I have the first pre and their arent really any updates or buzz for my phone so im just floating around waiting... I think thats what is making it worst.. :/ I guess we just have to wait and see..

It's pretty fair to assume that every carrier who carried the Galaxy S ONE will also carry the two because unlike the Pre, it was an unqualified success and quickly became the leading Android smartphone globally (and Samsung became the leading Android manufacturer).

BTW, that includes EVERY American carrier. The reason why they haven't been announced is that each one likes rebranding it (e.g. Fascinate, Epic).

To be fair, however, they are definitely fumbling like Palm/HP when it comes to a release date for the global version that always comes out first. It's inexcusable that there isn't one by now. be a shame to squander the buzz from that Engadget review (even if that brand means less than it used to).

Agree with all that you said, but even the Galaxy S phones were on stagered releases with different versions for each carrier.

I can't understand why you are all whining so much. In business terms, HP bought Palm very recently. It's one of the largest companies in the world. Isn't it enough for you that Leo Apotheker speaks out publicly (twice or more) about supporting the WebOS platform? You might say that Palm came into being the moment HP bought it. Everything will change. Have some g**damned patience! Apple's phones were **** for several generations, they didn't even have 3G! Android's first year was also less than desirable - I remember people complaining about their un-userfriendly phones.
HP is eventually going for a world-wide release. Marketing such a thing is no easy thing (My area of work by the way), and takes TIME to plan and execute! A campaign like that takes up to A YEAR to plan. I'm planning now for a campaign for a client which will start end of November, and we're behind schedule. If you are so impatient, go buy some other phone and STOP WHINING - It doesn't give anyone anything! By whining I don't mean constructive criticism, which is a good thing - Look it up on Wikipedia if you don't know what that means.
I'm very happy with my Pre2, had it since it came out in the UK, even if I can't buy apps (I'm a poor Swede, not allowed to). I expect in a year's time things will be different. Understand that HP's timescales are slightly different from Yours!
Wouldn't it be nice if one could read ONE ARTICLE at P/C without having to wade through comments like this? I think so.
Peace everyone.

I am now using and Andriod phone and I couldn't be happier. Yes, the OS is different and it took me a few days to get used to.Well, I know I don't need any of them; but HP's approach thus far is making my want fade.

http://www.fundfactor.com

Unsecured Business Loans

Oh no, mind share has dropped. Can you imagine how much more it will drop when every HP PC/laptop has that webOS icon next to Norton A/V when people boot it up?

As an owner of an HP Mini 311 for several months now, I couldn't tell you one piece of HP-branded bundled software that came with it except for the "HP Support Assistant" that pops up and runs in the background on its own that I have to constantly dismiss.

That's the kinda mindshare a "WebOS icon" will garner (on corporate machines, I promise anything bundled would be removed and replaced with a standard, security-software laden corporate image on every laptop and desktop).

Already reported 3 days ago in my tumblr.
And yes. with those numbers HP can't really think of doin what they think they'll do.
The situation is critical
1% in the market
we only dominate meego and symb.
few developers want to develop for webOS.
I'm curious. What HP think of this?
still "in the coming months" ????
how sad.

That article should bear a prefix title: "From the Department of Bleeding Obvious: webOS suffering in (...)"
After two years of Palm/HP corporate blunders and being always behind the game in everything that counts, and living in wishful thinking lalaland, what other result would be even possible?

As some said above, I totally agree: it will take a huge, costly & sustained effort to rise WebOS from it's current pit of death. And it will take a lot of no-frills, no-nonsense usability improvements to hardware (I hope Pre 3 is such a rock-solid hardware, although I would prefer it to be still BIGGER, please, in the region of 4.0" display. It would be just more comfortable to read & use it, goddamn, stop following iP in every hardware measure, for heaven's sake!), and the system/app bundle itself (killer web-syncing, offline-enabled, desktop-browser-editable PIM applications suite is one of such things I have in mind), and the developers relationships, and the huge and spot-on marketing campaign... Jaysus, there's so many things that can go wrong from here - and they simply cannot afford any more mistakes :). Good luck, HP, I would really like to see you succeeded w/ WebOS, but for now I am just hoping you realize how tough an uphill battle lies ahead of you. But that would be a welcoming change, up to date you haven't done ANYTHING to make me think you are starting putting your sh.t together, rather the opposite (well, maybe with the exception of your Pre 3 information page, it is quite good)

It is still oh-so-quiet on HP/WebOS side... "in the coming months" it might change, though :lol:

Prbablyy gettng aan iphonee orr android bbecauus whn youu try to type on the keyboard this happenss.

Oh and the phone doesn't work worth a damn either.

"...webOS has dropped from 2% of respondents to just 1%. While those numbers are low enough and close enough together to be statistical anomalies..."

Well you could say that but if you look at it from a statistical perspective webOS just lost 50% of it's potential customers. That's a big drop so let's try to figure out why this happened? I may be confused but it could have something to do with HPalm telling their Pre- customers to jump off a cliff. On top of that add the lack of product to the lack of marketing and you have the makings of a total disaster.

And sadly, this is a reason that WebOS is losing more devolopers, because charts show that people are "losing interest" so they go to Android or IOS just because of the larger user base. I've seen some awesome things ported over from developers (Gamesloft is an example) and heard that it's easy. So I think that this is the reason for lack of Apps, sadly. I want to stick with them and get a Pre3 because I LOVE the OS...

42% of Americans has a smart phone.
99% of consumers recognize the HP logo.

41% of shoppers who recall hearing retail advertisements made a purchase they were not planning on making after hearing a commercial or announcement about the products.

....Get with it HP.....

HP's accountants smell a write off, HPalm fan boys attend funeral of WebOS.........

HP is more than JUST phones and tablets, they are system integrators and they deliver enterprise systems. This is but a small division of who they are, and they will use its footprint to move into your home and into your work.

I found this video on HP's site, called Purpose and I think it's a nice video showing what their grand scheme of things look like. They showed a bit of the touchpad, the pre3, touch surfaces and touch-to-share.

http://h30415.www3.hp.com/?rf=sitemap&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN&fr_story=fe4...

Click on HP's Purpose video.

still waiting for HPalm to "make it right"... 'til then I'm planning on jumping ship to android. I tried to be supportive really I did, but this is ridiculous.

since I don't feel like adding boohoo and don't feel like arguing, let me just say I've decided to develop for webos, especially in the business/corporate services sector. Good day.
ps- btw hp gave me a free pre2 to develop on because they are attracting new devs.

Pfft. Considering that they are giving the shaft to Pre/Pre Plus owners outside of Europe with no official migration path to 2.x and no certainty of whether they'll be with Sprint, should anyone really be surprised? They abandoned their userbase. They expect a rush of people to take their place, apparently. Let's see if that happens.

The market will be very different by the end of the year. Good luck to them, though.