White processor-bumped 64GB and black 4G TouchPad due in August, Opal and Pre3 by fall | webOS Nation
 
 

White processor-bumped 64GB and black 4G TouchPad due in August, Opal and Pre3 by fall 258

by Derek Kessler Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:52 am EDT

Hold tight to your TouchPads, people, because things are about to get rocky. We’ve received a confidential HP product brief that outlines some of the future for webOS devices. The HP TouchPad’s only been out for a few days, but HP’s already got their next moves planned out.

Coming in August will be a new white TouchPad that will come along with a spec bump. It seems that only the “white glossy” TouchPad will be receiving the upgrade, which will come with 64GB of storage space and an upgraded processor chip. We’ve heard rumblings that a 1.5GHz dual-core Qualcomm Snapdragon might be in the wings.

Additionally, the AT&T cellular version of the TouchPad is due in August, and it’s due to be branded as 4G. The presentation indicates that the 32GB version will be available with support for AT&T’s faux-G 4G HSPA+ network, and apart from the addition of the new radio, won’t differ from the current 32GB TouchPad. More - including th Pre3 and Opal - after the break.

Looking past next month (is August really next month? Yikes), HP expects to launch the Pre3 and Opal in the “fall.” Autumn does fall past HP’s announced summer availability for the Pre3, though it could be that the Pre3 will launch in Europe by summer’s end as so many European retailers expect, with US availability slated for the fall. Don’t throw a riot in the comments – we just had them repainted.

The Opal, if you’ll recall, is to be HP’s 7-inch webOS tablet. We haven’t heard a lot about the Opal since design documents for it and the TouchPad (née Topaz) were leaked way back in January. It popped up again in tooltips for app pages, but has since disappeared. This mystery tablet (perhaps to be branded as the TouchPad7) is expected in the fall as well, but any other details about it are lacking at this point.

A few other notes from the presentation: As we’ve heard a few times, HP’s acknowledged that supply of the 16GB TouchPad is extremely limited, and is encouraging retailers to push the more expensive (and higher profit) 32GB version whenever possible. All TouchPad accessories are also “under constraint”, but there’s not really anything they can push potential customers to in lieu of those. Retailers are under an ad embargo date of July 17th, meaning that up to that date the only TouchPad advertising we’ll see should be from HP, giving them complete control over setting the message for at least the start.

Thanks anonymous!

258 Comments

I don't even know what to think?!? some good news some bad.

Seriously. I'm like yay white touchpad and 64gb? Count me in, but the Pre3 for the Fall :/ I'm on wits end here. I don't want the Pre3 to fall into the enigma of other phones outspeccing it (even though specs aren't everything).

The Pre3 is already "out specced" be existing Android phones, let alone some of the upcoming ones. I love(d) HPalm, but this is the reason I had to make the switch to Android (at least, for now). If I still had my Palm Pre Plus and was holding out for the Pre3 I would be seriously annoyed by this roadmap.

This is a prime example of why HP really needs to license the OS out to other smartphone manufacturers. When I decided to switch from WebOS to Android, I had made up my mind to purchase the Motorola Droid Bionic. The Bionic is also suffering from delay issues, but one of the nice thing about Android is I at least had other choices available. So, I went with the Samsung Droid Charge. With HP, right now you are stuck. What happened to devices being available a couple of weeks after they were announced???

This is precisely why you don't announce unfinished products MONTHS before you launch.

Yes, let's announce a product and launch it when it's hardware is at the end of it's life-cycle.

Remember the Notion Ink Adam? When announced, it had amazing specifications. But when it actually shipped, it was outdone by most other hardware and it plain sucked (give it didn't stand a chance even then with buggy software) but still, it would have had a great hardware atleast years ago.

Pre3 will launch 7-9 months AFTER announcement, That's a LONG LONG LONG LONG time in a mobile product cycle, Pre3 will already be half obsolete by September, October.... given it launches beginning of fall, not the end.

Best advice, scrap the damn thing, and start over. Sorry but Pre3 is not going to bode well against what's coming out this fall.

Full on onslaught of Galaxy S II variants on nearly all carriers, iPhone5 likely due in fall.

Sorry HP, you're picking the worst possible time to launch your under spec'd phone. Destined to be a low seller and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

The bad news is there is no slate mystery device on the timeline.

yeah i have to agree. i think i've bought my last physical keyboard phone.

It will be very interesting if this comes out the same time as the new iphone. Though rumor for that is october. But also if that iphone ends up even on sprint as is also rumored. could be a big battle. especially if the iphone is announced in Sept near a pre 3 launch. many may just hold off on a pre 3 and wait.

"a big battle", between iPhone 5 and Pre 3??? What are you smoking, man?

its not the slate per se i wanted but assumption that if pre3 was going verizon/att the slate would go sprint. If the slate doesnt exist (yet) sprint may yet be left in the cold.

By the time the Pre3 launches, it will be like the scene in This is Spinal Tap when the pi comes down and is only 2 feet tall. I'd pay to be at that press release.

i want the pre3 as much as anyone else...but being that i got the touchpad, it will easily hold me off till then.

what im reallly P.ISSED off about is that they are going to release a NEW touchpad with a NEW processor in ONE month...W T F . so my touchpad i just waited 6 months for and bought on launch day will already be outdated when this white one comes out. white color- dont care, 64gb- i can live with, 1.5ghz processor- EFF THAT. i think HP should have the decency of telling us if this 1.5ghz (within 14 days of purchase) is true to we can decide if we want to return our 'soon-to be-outdated' touchpad. i was already kind of regretting buying the touchpad when i heard rumors of an envy line coming out soon.

next thing you know they are going to release that its going to be thinner and lighter than the orig touchpad

apple would never do this, all of us early adopters are essentially getting screwed over, how the eff are they going to release a faster processor on us ONE month after they put their first tablet on the market- give me a fudging break.

i have been extremely pro-HP though everyones b.itching, but this is an outrage...

I wouldn't worry, the white one with the processor bump will probably end up being delayed like the Pre3.

If I remember correctly, Apple dropped the price of its first iPhone soon after launch and that hacked off a lot of the early adopters. Also, keep in mind that new laptop models come out every 3 months and this touchpad has been around for some time for beta testers like the CEO. So a turn for newer features might have been in the works for awhile.

price is one thing..upgrading the hardware is another. i wouldnt be as frustrated if they dropped the touchpad price in a month. new processor in a month- not so much.

and tablets are not laptops. im just saying, looking at how apple is doing it all ipad models are equal except 16/32/64gb. they only upgrade hardware when it's a completely new product. why should people who purchase a 4g touchpad have a faster processor than us early adopters?? why not wait a month, and get one off contract for maybe $100 more than the current 32gb?

I think you are assuming the "processor bump" is going to be significant. The processor in the touchpad, msm8060, can be clocked to 1.5ghz already, but HP did not for whatever reason. The bump they are referring to probably is in reference to going up to the msm8660 or msm8260 because both of these chips have the radios for CDMA/HSPA+ built in but are otherwise the same. If they do raise the clockspeed, there is a possibility of HP raising clockspeed on current tablets.

I am hoping that they will just listen to the reviews and stop this glossy-case business and do either aluminum or the soft touch material like the original pre touchstone backing.

indeed..well that makes me feel a lot better.

You mean webOSutils hasn't already released an overclocking kernel and Govnah for the Touchpad?

Those guys must be slipping...

They won't be raising the clockspeed or they would've released it with the 1.5GHz speed. Return your TouchPad and get the new one when it comes out.

Look on the brightside, maybe HP will give you a $50 rebate if you purchase the 64GB device. ;-)

I actually see this as a good thing. Maybe as an early adopter its a lil frustrating. But it goes to show the kind of powerhouse manufacturing HP can deliver once they get the ball rolling. Just like HP's laptops and Desktops, with HP's mite we will be getting new devices with better performance and features very often.

Now imagine this powerhouse manufacturing machine when they do finally get the REAL ball rolling on their phones. Its kind of scary in a way, I almost feel a lil sorry for the competition when the do decide they are ready to get that ball rolling.

I think it will be more like the scene from braveheart where the king(hp) rapes his wife(early adopters)

Some people won't be happy with anything. HP takes 6 mos to release new HW and it's too late, They come out with an upgrade in ~2 mos and 'it's too soon'. I am just happy it's finally out. I don't want the pre 3 sooner rather than later, but I want a TP now... And who knows, maybe the 4g TP needs more speed to go with the broadband radio.

I don't see this going well...

...oh For F's SAKE! Go whine somewhere else! Why so many negative people? And what exactly do you mean, other than venting your bad day? Go away!

He was just being honest no need to be a **** about it. Pre 3 months after touchpad is very bad news bears...

If you do not like that people are being honest well to damn bad, go away!

See now I am acting like you.
People here just do not like when people are being honest they would rather be in their own little fantasy world. Come back to reality. Pre 3 months after touchpad IS BAD no matter how you slice it.

Most people were expecting Pre3 to be out around the time of the touchpad, you know to take advantage of one of the biggest features of the two devices.... You know touch to share? Remember that feature?

People can thumbs me down, just being honest at this point. This is not good news for the OS I love the most... Now time to wait for HP to license out WebOS and hope for the best.

i agree with you. And if anyone feels like getting upset about this dissppointing news, they have every right to. HP gave us their word that a Pre 3 launch was expected sometime in the SUMMER not the FALL..give us a break.

it is launching in summer.. just not in us. they are keeping their promise. they never said summer in us...... just sayin

They could easily have offered us the Pre 3 directly and leave it for us to set it up on our carrier of choice. They could also see who has a previous generation Palm phone, and can probably even see which devices are active, so give us a discount on purchases directly though HP.

Here's an idea, they COULD give us a Pre 3 off contract for $200 for those with an active Palm Profile as their way of "making it right". **** if they offered financing directly for $25/month for two years(assuming the phone would be $600 off contract), that would be another way to work around the carriers.

Basically, most of us are SICK of being held hostage by AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint when it comes to what devices are offered, and we want an alternative!

I love how people defend HP when they say "they are keeping their promise", even when they are keeping it in the cheapest way possible.

agreed!

TTS is not their biggest feature.
It's a nice to have bonus feature.

And yeah - Pre3 delayed to fall is bad.
If it really becomes available in Europe before that then this means that this is a carrier decision. Obviously HP would have an interest in selling it ASAP.

Other than the touchstone its their biggest innovation and is something that separates them from the rest of the pack.

Multitasking, numbers on the keyboard, different size keyboards, flash, answering phone calls/texts, etc.are ALL innovations.

1.5 GHz dual core processor, 4 or 3 1/2 G, etc is innovation.

People here pick one thing they don't want to hear (Pre 3 in the fall) and go crazy about EVERYTHING HP/Palm. Look at the big picture people. Most of this is good/great news.

Doesn't say why Pre 3 is in the fall. Does it not seem strange it will be in Europe this month? What could the reason it would take at least 2 more months to release in the U.S.? Just speculating, but maybe they want a launch on all carriers, maybe they want to launch w/webOS 3.0, maybe they just want to get it right.

The glass really seems half full to me. I want the Pre 3 more than a tablet, but I was shocked at all the negative remarks while ignoring the good things this article brings.

The first section of your post can easily be updated in a software updates for other devices so if Android or iOS decides they want those things they could do so. So it really isnt going to sell a TouchPad. (other than flash for iPads)

Although for multitasking WebOS will most likely do it better.

4 or 3 1/2 G? Not really yet and other tablets will have it so again not really an innovation. As for the processor others will have that and greater soon enough.

It needs to set itself apart a great deal from the flood of tablets hitting the market now and in the coming months. It sucks but it is true. I wish it were not but nothing can be done about it.

Touchstone and touch to share are the main 2 features that are not likely to hit other tablets any time soon, even in clone form.

Those keyboard "innovations" have been available in Android for quite dome time now.

I do not think most people here are mad at HP for not coming out with the Pre 3 for our sakes- but for the devices sake. Going to be hard to compete with all the other devices coming out unless it gets press first. The Veer by all accounts isn't a runaway hit. WeBOS needs a great device in the carriers front display- not on the back displays in the corner where it will end up if an August release becomes October, which becomes November, ect....

...so which one is BIGGER, more flashy & promoted than that TTS "thing" (I agree that for most part, in it's current implementation, it's a gimmick. But a gimmick, that they have decided to put a lot of marketing & hype on. Now you can touch yourself with TouchPad, unless you want Veer "the Weird")

And as far as I know thats not even enabled on the veer yet, unless it was updated recently.

We call them fan-boys.

People like it when they hear what they want to hear :) HP would do what it thinks is in its long term business interest! Are we better than the hp think tank? may be, may be not, only time will tell...

The point is that there are ways of expressing yourself constructively - Like the posts just above - or totally without context or constructiveness, like the post saying "I don't see this going well".
What, exactly, does that give anybody but the poster?

Same could have been said about your post, you just started attacking the dude without cause. You could have asked "What do you not see going well".:

Instead you come out the gate with "...oh For F's SAKE! Go whine somewhere else! Why so many negative people? And what exactly do you mean, other than venting your bad day? Go away!".

You might dislike the negativity around here however that does not mean you have to be an **** to those expressing their honest opinion. A lot of people are watching a product they like being destroyed by the hands of HP, at this point likely the only hope will be if HP licenses it out or pulls a rabbit out of a seemingly empty hat.

It sucks but what is the other alternative? Have it be another extinct product?

I hope the best for WebOS be it from HP other another hardware manufacturer. I want to see it pull traction but so far every move HP has done is just disappointing and making people lose hope more and more.

When people are disappointed or are losing hope they tend to express it more so than the ones that are happy the way things are.

Just have to get through these depressing times to hopefully an amazing WebOS future.

/rant

Yeah, because pushing back release dates for their flagship phone more and more is positive, and not supposed to induce negativity in people. Riiight.

No, just how you choose to perceive it. Is it the end of the world? Are there other good news to put in relation to?

All in all, how important is the release date to HP's success you think? A month this way or that?

"Is it the end of the world?"

Actually, yes, for a lot of Sprint contracts. *IF* people's Pre-'s (somehow) continue to live, what person in their right mind won't jump ship to Android at this point.

I can't stand the way Android works, but, as a Sprint user, I'm just about out of time, and I'm (clearly...) certainly out of options.

Yes, in some respects, it *is* the End of the World.

M.

HP: "The Pre3 will be out a few weeks after announcement. Maybe in late Feb, early March!"

....

HP: " The Pre3 will be available in the summer months!"

....

HP: "The Pre3 will be available in fall!"

And you're wondering why people are being negative about this? I'll just give you a few this is not good.

1) Touchpad has touch to share. Interesting and unique feature! Uh, it's also a feature not many people can use because the Veer is the only phone that can do it and people aren't buying the Veer.

2) HP has no phone that will appeal to the people right now. The Veer is meant fo a small population of people. Most people who get media consumption devices want bigger screens (who wants to watch youtube on a 2.6" screen? Read emails on that? Play Angry Birds when your finger covers 1/4 of the screen?

3) The longer HP waits, the crappier their hardware is. Their hardware was outdone 5 months ago and companies have been releasing hardware outclassing the Pre3 for months now. The Pre3 will be looking shoddy spec wise.

4) Show that HP is incapable of meeting release dates. Who's to know if HP later says "Will come out in Spring 2012!" Some of us can't wait. If you have an original Pre- you probably can't. The hardware was so badly made that you're likely to be having major issues right now. I know I am. My phone is dying badly. I want to stay with webOS as a huge webOS fan. My phone now is not reliable to call anyone. It turns off by itself sometimes. I've put up with this for months longer than I wanted to, and yet it's still going to take them another 2-4 months? Seriously?

If they bump the specs on the Pre 3 to a dual-core 1.2GHz as a part of the delay, then they can be excused. CPU change should not require going back to the FCC again I don't think.

"2) HP has no phone that will appeal to the people right now. The Veer is meant fo a small population of people. Most people who get media consumption devices want bigger screens"

- I'm sure nobody at HP did any consumer research or anything before they launched the Veer. They should have listened to you - the voice of the people! :)

Microsoft also presumably did consumer research before launching the Kin.

Yeah, same thing with Office 2007... $10 Million, I think the figure was... What a fantastic idea that was. Notice Office 2010 is slowly going back to the old look?

M.

I agree with your points, but on #4, HP said Veer would ship in Spring, which they met, TouchPad would release in summer, which started a couple of weeks ago, so they met that one; They said late summer for the Pre3.

Believe me, I wanted the Pre3 with the TouchPad, but the difference on the calendar between late summer and "official Fall" could be a matter of days. This is still not a press release, just a roadmap. Maybe they'll speed up as we approach "late summer!"

Having played with the Touchpad at Best Buy, I want the Pre3 and Opal more than the present Touchpad. 9.7" is too heavy... 7" should be just right.

TOTALLY AGREE. My original sprint pre has a fat crack on the screen LOL. However, i prewared the shizzle out of it and it's still working great. WebOS and its developers are pretty badass. I need an HP Pre 3 god dammit! HP didn't make anything right by giving me 50 dollar credit on a touchpad. I DON"T WANT A FREAKIN TOUCHPAD....just yet anyways

it is amazing that Samsung can just decide in like Feb/march to redo their tablet design, change the hardware, make it thinner, etc and still get it into stores ahead of HP's unchanged tablet.

they are a different class of company.

Yep nuthin says CORPORATE BEHEMOTH like HP.

they have scale and speed. thats y apple is suing them.
there phones and tablets outclass hp. i cant wait till android does touch to share with nfc and bluetooth. there goes that gimmick

Yes you are right, that was amazing but keep in mind, samsung only does hardware and didn't/couldn't have to do software modifications. I don't know if samsung does own manufacturing also. in contrast hp uses inventec. Apple uses foxconn.

"The HP TouchPad’s only been out for a few days, but HP’s already got their next moves planned out." ---> It reads more like "HP's already got their plans pushed back in the US due to lack of carrier cooperation".

It is good that the Pre 3 is being released here in Europe at least, but shame that it is also going the path of Pre 2, i.e. with apparently no carrier support, and to be sold directly to consumers at full price.

Or the negative reviews made them or the carriers think twice

LOL at blaming negative reviews rather than the product itself.

i blame **** qualcom chips. sometimes cheap is not better

So is that...buy a pre2 get a touchpad for free for real?

God I hope this is wrong....I mean they announced the Pre3 in FEBRUARY! THey cant expect anyone to still care in Fall can they?

And if the delay is due to bugs or software...my god....what have they been doing for the past 5 monhts...at least the touchpad is a tablet

After so many months, there is really no excuse for the Pre 3 to be any less than the competition. If/when it is released, if the Pre 3 lacks the accelerometer, magnetometer (compass), gyroscope, or 4G that is available on EVERY OTHER PHONE, it will be a non-starter.

i expect the iphone 5 and the souped up galaxy s2 phone to bathe in the blood of the pre 3. gory i know!

64gb available only in white? That doesn't seem right.

I'm not happy about the Pre3 news. They showed the thing off in early FEBRUARY! How long does it take?

I don't think they've ever launched a World Phone with two radios. Who knows what's all involved.

happy = processor bump and 4G
sad = I just got my 32 GB Touchpad and it is already outdated.

Not outdated, just different. Did you really NOT expect a 3G/4G tablet to be coming in a month or two? Tell me you were kidding. I and others waited intentionally for this functionality.

I was talking about the boost to the processor in August (announced 3 days after launch) you dolt.

LOL

(nodding head)

I think HP just cut the happy user-base in half again. It's boggling, the longer HP works on this, the worse it gets on the consumer front. And has anything functional hit the mark to appear to enterprise yet?

Where did HP actually announce anything? Nothing in the article has been stated officially by HP.

That's technology for you... I am typing this on an iPad first-gen, (wish it were TouchPad!)

I think HP need to release the 64GB & 4G in both Black & White. Limiting the color, storage, and capability to certain colors is a bad marketing move, IMHO.

Ha Ha Ha. **** forget even mid-level hardware. Unless HP is upping the specs for a surprise, the Pre 3 will be a giveaway. ' HP. We take our time to be
less than mediocre.'

Yep, holding it back to improve the software won't sway people. The only way they'll be able to keep people's attention with all the new 3D super-fast phones coming out is to up the specs of the Pre 3, or release it next week with current specs. Since they're not releasing it next week, spec bump is a must.

Even the Android review of the 3D features of the Evo 3D say it is a gimmick.

How many people do you think are salivating for a 3D phone? Not many, IMO.

You actually sound like anyone trying to make their choice look good. I've spoke to 7 people who actually own the Evo 3D and they all enjoy the 3d feature. And, the best part about it is that 'gimmick' is in addition to the superior hardware it comes with. The Pre3 simply isn't a contender outside of the mediocre field right now (hardware wise) and is an entry-level item come this Fall.

@Mike5

Storage, Unlimited vs. 16gig
RAM, 1gig vs. 512
Radio, Wimax vs. EVDO r0
CPU, 1.2 dual vs. 1.4 single
Apps, many vs. few
Doc editing yes vs. no
Avail in US yes vs. coming months (carrier pending)

With or without 3D, which everybody agrees is a gimmick, this is they Yankees vs. Mudhens.

Thanks for pressing the point.

hey the killer feature is that its on sprint and not a marathon waiting list

Yeah, Sprint yes vs. no is key.

It's over at Sprint. If they wanted to preserve their WebOS base, they'd have at least stated so at the beginning of June, even if no device had been selected.

Since Feb 9, a soft Veer launch and what looks to be a so-so touchpad launch, a second PR assault on Sprint via social media and a backhanded slap to customers with the Spend 600/Get 50 back some day/Make it right campaign.

Sprint is not coming back until WebOS is able to make significant growth without Sprint taking an operational exposure. No point in carrying the #5 smartphone if its destined to remain a minor player. I don't even think a Wimax powered/ exclusive to a spec bending superdevice can catch their attention now.

I'm sorry for Sprints customers (I'm one of them) but enough WebOS customers have left WebOS or sprint in the last six months that it's not worth extending support beyond 1.4.5 just to save a few defections.

Maybe this is a good thing...LOL. We hold off for like a year and then it becomes "free with a 2 year contract" or somethin like that. It's like waiting for a new movie to come out on blue-ray. mmmm, not really

leo: iwant to be cool like apple. are we cool yet?

Number one-r.

Yes, the news about the US P3 is a bit of a downer. I was expecting, hoping, it would be released very shortly following the TP.

With the extra time involved, maybe they're working on making the P3 better somehow. Also, I hope a Fall timeframe release doesn't happen to coincide with Apple busting out a new iPhone.

Either way, if my P- holds out that long I'll likely get a P3, as long as it's not too buggy.

I was thinking the same thing. Do the people at HPalm have a death wish or something. If they had gotten it out now it gives the at least 1+ months on the new IPhone. Now it might just be out the same day if not after the Monster IPhone 5 release. It's Deja Vu all over again.

Me too. When the Pre 3 started appearing on European websites for preorder, I figured it was just a matter of weeks before release in the U.S. A bit of a downer, but TouchPad news is good.

Pre3 in the FALL?! Ohhhh, man.. This is not good. Not good at all. My only thread of hope now is that the delay is so that they can release the Pre3 running WebOS 3.0 from the get-go, rather than 2.x, with a "future upgrade" to 3.0. I firmly believe HP is abandoning any version of WebOS that isn't 3.0. There's really no point in them continuing to support two (or even three) different versions of the operating system. Focus on one, get developers writing on one, and cut their losses. It gives them the opportunity to essentially start from scratch.

I mean - WebOS 2.x users still don't have simple bug fixes to major problems. (i.e. Google calendar sync) My guess would be that they simply don't have the resources to be fixing the 2.x version and re-writing the entire ecosystem from scratch for the 3.x version. Not to mention now that 3.0 is out in the wild, they'll have to be sending out bug fixes for THAT as well.

1.4.x is dead - and so is 2.x

That's just my opinion. And the Pre3 better be released with 3.x after this long of a delay.

I think you are right. This might be just so that they can go directly to webOS 3.0 on their phones (and get better reviews from the get-go instead of "yeah... promissing, but doesn't do XY. This is promised to be delivered later via OTA).

I really don't give 2 shizzles about the software. Those can be amended later on. Give me the damn phone!

That's a darn shame if it's true. Granted, 2.x has its share of bugs, but it is still quite usable and works great on the Pre 2. If they're holding back the Pre 3 to get 3.x working on it, it's a huge mistake. A 1.4GHz processor was great in February when they announced it, but in the fall you'll be getting dual-core 1.4GHz phones far ahead of the Pre 3 in terms of specs, not to mention apps.

HP just keeps making mistake after mistake with webOS, and they had a year to get it right and hire enough people to make webOS competitive.

No disrespect to you but it is interesting to see a post suggesting HP may not have enough resources to do something when most people on this board would have you believe HP has unlimited resources, scale, reach, etc.

I've been downticked to China for pointing out HP's marketshare is as low as their market cap. Ditto for pointing out their profitability is diddly while their competitors are magnitudes more profitable so they can fund their R+D and have cash left over. The nice thing about publicly available numbers, math has a predetermined outcome, so no number of -1's will change that.

Show me this big HP, show me the results.

Fall? I'm gone. Sorry HPalm, you have had two years to come out with something new on Sprint.

Why is it their fault if Sprint won't deal with them? Sprint is enamored with clunky Android and now they have sights set on iPhone. My buddy works in Sprint corporate and he says they gave up on Palm at a corporate level which is why I am giving up on them... Especially because they are now making me pay ten more bucks per month for a launch-day Pre!

It's not just Sprint, it's AT&T and Verizon as well. If the phone has been made and the carriers won't release it, then HP should just sell it directly to the public with financing options so people can afford to buy it without having to spend $600 out of pocket for a PHONE.

I'd buy it and make my own finanncing, if only it worked on my current carrier (verizon) but otherwise, I can't afford another cell phone over and above the two I have.

As far as the Pre 2 is concerned, I find it to be all I expected it to be. fast and stable. and good HW. I may now wait for the 3 since my other line's 2 is so nice.

Can't wait for my TP to arrive, I will give a full review when it does. No unboxing video though... It won't be pretty enough to tape...

The economy is still in the toilet, so the amount of money people spend out of pocket is the real issue for many people. The carriers really should offer a discount to customers who are not on a contract since those on a 2-year contract are "paying back" the company for getting their device cheaper.

If a device costs $600 off contract, then $25/month for a 0% financing offer on devices would be the discount for not being on contract, but the carriers are greedy and run by idiots who don't understand how to make customers happy.

sprint won't deal with them because time after time Palm/HP has shown they can't get their house in order. And by clunky Android you mean the hottest and fastest growing mobile OS around? Yeah Sprint is going to pass on that.

Time to take off the rose colored glasses and look at this like a big boy.

To be fair, I have had an Android phone since February. Compared to webOS on my Pre-, Android IS clunky, popular or not.

I switched back to a Pre2 from a Galaxy S in May. My clean glasses saw that Android is pretty good, but a little clunky compared to webOS, but touchwiz, sense and motoblur suck! On the other hand Android improves constantly, a lesson someone else needs to learn.

I think the Centro was one of Sprint's best selling phones. I don't know how there's a "time after time" when at best it is the Palm Pre.

The Pre-, due to its forward-thinking software design still holds its own two years later.

I don't think Sprint gives a rat's arse if a phone runs Android or not. They simply want to offer phones THAT PEOPLE WANT so that they can sell their services. At one point they bet on webOS. They lost that bet and decided to bet on something else. So far, that new bet is paying off. Had the Pre done well, Sprint would probably have kept webOS in their lineup.

I knew things were bad when I walked into a Sprint store and the store manager joked "I see you have a Pre. Tell me, how much do you hate it?" and goes on to explain how the Pre was "bad for business".

People keep blaming Sprint but they gave webOS its initial backing...and paid the price for doing so.

it is put up or shut up time for webos on phones. if hp can't release a phone that consumers want. Carriers are going to push it less than they are wp7,symbian, or even rim phones. it will be a death nell.

Fall for Pre3? If Euro Summer launch is true, I blame the stupid carriers.

Don't need no stinkin' Sprint TV, AT&T Nav, VCAST, Rogers Media, crippled Bluetooth, anything. Just release the damn phone already.

Although on another note. Veer did NOT launch in June, it was back in May.

I think you definitely nailed the real source of the problem.

we have a roadmap...we have never had that before..far as i can see if they fix they issues, which i think homebrew might beat them to we will be on our way. so either help out, spread the word because the negativity is doing nothing to get stuff out sooner.

be positive about your experiences and tell them what directly what you think should be improved.
I am excited for the roadmap. no product is going to be perfect...apple is not perfect, android is not perfect.

but as a community we need to help instead of being negative.

Teckiegirl, you can only be soo positive. Everyone has a threshold .. and for most of us we cant take it anymore...samsung has released 17 phones between Feb and now....and HP cant even get one solid one out the door

at some point responsibility for this has to fall on the shoulders of HP....

Lets just hope that this is wrong or outdated....

Last I checked, Samsung didn't have to deal with writing an OS, setting up the app store, etc...

You're they didn't. They also didn't have a year to get it right either and look at the failure HP is.

so why has rubies team taken so long to give hp the new os for the pre 3. someone in palm is failing hard

It's not the community we have to worry about. The negative reviews from the tech press have already gone out, and we can't take those back. I think people are more likely to listen to Wired or thisismynext rather than us anyway.

..yep, any minute, just give us something to be positive about. Anything? No?

Too bad...

PS. "we have a ROADMAP!" - that's a freaking achievement! Are you seriously asking me to be positive about that???

Considering we didn't have the information to make any purchasing decisions off of before, then yes, this is something to be very positive about.

...hmmm... are you saying, that based on that roadmap/new information, you expect Pre 3 to succeed against the competition, around the same timeframe as iPhone 5, WP7 "Mango", Android 4.0 "Ice Cream Sandwich" is supposed to be released - and ALL of them spotting new MONSTER hardware just around the corner (holiday season), or even ready? And for the (pretty much confirmed) price? Man, you are seriously clueless.

Yes, very, VERY positive, indeed! If you are living in webOS lalaland, maybe. Not in the real world.

Well said! The homebrewers for WebOS are second to none. I can't wait to see how they fix the TouchPad. Love my Pre still because of homebrew.

..it is, like, Android doesn't have HUNDREDS of homebrewers, putting out not only thousands of patches, but also complete DISTRIBUTIONS of the OS, thanks to it being OpenSource? Riiight...

Quite so! HP is not perfect either. Neither is Apple.

Constructive criticism vs. whining, on Precentral whining is too loUD.

Whining after 6 months of delays is probably unfair. Whining after a year of delays is fair game. I'm a programmer, so I know all about unexpected setbacks and dragged-out development cycles, but I'm stumped as to why HP has yet to make advantage of the GPU for acceleration. This has been a problem since day one (even the Pre "minus" has a hardware acceleration). This should have been priority #1 (or at least #2). Is the PDK holding this back? Again, NO information from HP about anything. And is it so hard to get a damn book reader app out there? It's almost like they're being paid by Apple to be complete **** ups. I'm a patient man, but I'm not spending another penny on an HP product until they open up about the reasons for all these delays. And, HP, I know I said earlier that you need to watch where you spend your money, etc., but it's hard to not feel like all you care about is money when the emulator window is crippled (deliberately?) for v2 apps in order to force TouchPad users to "re-buy" optimized versions of said apps, and you force us to pay iPad-like money for an obviously inferior product. You say you care about developers, but developers are users too...

I am sooooo sick of not having access to any new WebOS phones. I have my Touchpad...but as a Sprint customer...I am stuck with the 2+ year old Pre-, of which I am on my third. I guess I will just immerse myself into my Touchpad and continue to wait...sigh.

Well, you're not technically stuck on it, there is the Sprint Pre 2, and people who can hack it up for you if you don't have hacking chops...

More than likely, that will be a no go. From what I see, most Sprint customers are there because of the cheaper plans. I don't see them coughing up the $450 to get an unlocked Pre2 and then spending a few extra dollars getting it Sprintified.

ah.. well I give it one more week if I don't hear of a real pre3 release date I'm switching over to a nexus S from my frankenpre+ like so many others we've been waiting and promised release dates don't mean much to palm/HP.. its very dissapointing because I do love the OS I've stuck with it for 2 years.. but so many promises have already been broken its hard to trust them anymore. if I swich over to an android phone I'll probably come back to webOS if they can rebuild the hype and reputation the pre had at CES 2 years ago.

Why the 1 week deadline? It was ok to wait when they said "summer." You know summer doesn't end until...September 20th or so. Why not wait until at least Labor Day as it seems you would have before?

They probably won't give the actual date this soon. They announced the actual release date for the TouchPad within two weeks of shipping.
HP said Veer would ship in Spring, which they met, TouchPad would release in summer, which started a couple of weeks ago, so they met that one; They said "late summer" for the Pre3.

Believe me, I wanted the Pre3 with the TouchPad, but the difference on the calendar between "late summer" and "official Fall" could be a matter of days. This is still not a press release, just a roadmap. Maybe they'll speed up as we approach "late summer!"

well i never thought id be the one to say it but i believe im gonna bow out on webos for my next phone i looked at the evo 3d over the weekend and didnt find it that difficult to use at all and it just offers so much more in the way of apps and usability also its super fast and responsive and even if the pre3 came out this month so what its bigger and faster but it wont have any new shiny toys or things to discover about it and not any new apps for a while. so maybe when hp gets serious about it then i will to i truly did love webos and recomended it to everyone but i guess its time to move on to something new i love new things i just hope i dont regret it.

32GB Touchpad only costs around $30 more than the 16GB Touchpad to make, yet HP charges $100 more. Yeah, that's making things right. The 64GB better include that spec bump (1.5GHz would be a nice bump over 1.2GHz) if they plan on charging $100 more than the 32GB version.

every company charges $100 more.. the first to do it was Apple...

Still doesn't make it right...

I think this is where HP will differ from how Palm did things and how Apple did things. HP is all about mid-level upgrades. We may never see a TouchPad 2. What we will more than likely see are incremental upgrades to the TouchPad but no actual name change.

We will also see a Touchpad 7, for the seven inch version. I think HP will establish two or three tablet lines and release incremental upgrades for them.

Nice one Derek!

Faux-G

Gotta love it!

I don't care about the road-map. My original Pre- on Sprint is sooooo old compared to other phones. I'm trying to hang on, but it gets tiring trying to talk up the Pre to friends and then see stuff like this. My wife has already made the switch to Android, maybe I should too...

You know, my biggest problem with HP is their PR (and I don't mean their ads, which are fairly good now). They need to be VERY vocal about all the criticisms aimed at them. Tell us NOW why you're so far behind! Tell us what the hold-ups are! Tell us you're rewriting this or that to bolster x and y before releasing said app/device. Every time you miss a deadline, TELL US WHY. HP, we want to know we're not wasting time and money buying (or waiting to buy) your products, and your banal statements to-date have been almost COMPLETELY unreliable and have become meaningless.

Addendum: For example, Kindle was promised for the TouchPad, but is missing from the shipped product. WHY? NetFlix has been promised for a long time now, but is missing on the shipped product. It's been available on select Android devices for a few months. HP must know we all want it badly, yet NOTHING on why it's been delayed. Steve Jobs must be laughing his **** off...

Exactly, all their secrecy is completely maddening and serves no purpose other than to drive people away.

Right. Everyone has heard their mother say, "If you have nothing pleasant to say, don't say anything at all". Hey, HP, we want the news, even if it's bad news, as long as you demonstrate that you're aware of our misery and are aggressively working to overcome it. By the way, despite my admiration for HP's ads, their money would be better spent hiring top-notch developers and financially assisting companies who express an interest in developing for your products. GET THE DAMN APPS OUT THERE - WE WILL SELL YOUR PRODUCTS FOR YOU

I think they've been doing that; that's part of the reason there are 300 apps available instead of 3, some higher-profile apps like Free 50GB Box.Net and Kindle (which no other WebOS device has).

Also, have you seen the Palm (they still call it that) job listing lately? There are several positions open!

So true DAT.

Being in PR and seeing what happened with Mark Hurd (who I think is one of the best CEO's)I am not too sure that HP even has a public relations team.

Pre 3 in the fall?? Not good for HP since they will now be bumping up against the iphone 5. We saw how that worked out for them in 2009 especially since those phones will be coming to Verizon and AT&T. How do you sell that one. Brand new dual core iphone, retina display, a gazillion apps or 1.4 single core, VGA screen, 8,000 apps(maybe) Pre 3.

Also new Windows Phone hardware

Anyone else think its taking the piss to do a spec bump couple of months after? I am sorry but we've waited ages, even if they said the spec bump was coming officially that wouldn't be to bad!

I'd prefer the white, I'd like a white pre 3 ala veer though, but no carrier support means its practically dead on arrival and with the touchpad spec bump makes me think twice about getting the pre 3 if something better is coming along.

Lets just hope the pre3 has had a spec bump to warrant the wait!

Ok here's my bi_t_ch grip and also optimistic view all in one post....

Let's see... Fall officially starts on September 23rd. The Pre 3 was announced the first week of February. They said it would be ready by summer. We were all upset that it would take that long. Now we are told fall. Winter starts on December 22nd. That means that fall is between September 23 through December 21st. September 23rd will be 8 months.

I'm upset just like everyone else. Six months and still no Pre3 for summer release. September 23 will be 8 months. Come on HP!!!! We are just waiting to spend our money on product we have grown to love.

Here's to being more optimistic...

Let's remember that HP bought Palm and so doing let's also keep in mind that acquisitions talk time to complete. The company I worked for was bought by a bigger company and it took well over a year to complete. When I say complete, I'm talking about the whole process, the purchase, merging processes, management, and so on.

It's obvious that Palm never had plans to build a tablet. Palm was going bankrupt, they had no more money to build WebOS from scratch for a tablet. HP quickly went to work. In fact, I read a report that HP put together the tablet in 7 months. If you think about it that is very impressive. To build an entire OS from scratch in 7 months is simply amazing! Didn't it take Apple 2 years or more to build the ipad? I know the touchpad has a lot of bugs but I believe HP will fix all the bugs quickly. HP is building an ecosystem that we all will learn to love in the next few years.

Take it for what it's worth!?!?

Also, Palm lost a lot of good people that jumped ship right before and after HP purchased Palm. HP may have very talented people but Palm lost a lot of mind share in a very short period that had to have some impact on where things are now.

Right, but this doesn't account for the pre-written code that HP apparently threw out the window for the TouchPad (e.g., eschewing the popular create-and-rename-your-own-tabs feature in 2.x for a brain-dead version of it).

Most people forget about the "Late Summer" availability for Pre3 part.

Also, they probably won't give the actual date this soon. They announced the actual release date for the TouchPad within two weeks of shipping.
HP said Veer would ship in Spring, which they met, TouchPad would release in summer, which started a couple of weeks ago, so they met that one; They said "late summer" for the Pre3.

Believe me, I wanted the Pre3 with the TouchPad, but the difference on the calendar between "late summer" and "official Fall" could be a matter of days. This is still not a press release, just a roadmap. Maybe they'll speed up as we approach "late summer!"

tired of waiting for the pre3. might be time to move on

WTF??? I need a Pre3... on SPRINT... argg, more reason not to buy the touchpad anytime soon. At this rate, I'll just buy a tablet when the 2nd gen comes out. A tablet is a want, a phone is a need. WTF HP!?!?

Not trying to be negative, but if HP waits until the Fall to release the Pre 3 in the states, they may as well not release it; or just give it away with TouchPads or something.The hype has already died down since it's debut at Think Beyond in Feb., and we all know the iPhone 5 is coming this fall (with a possible/rumored iPad upgrade as well).

Again, I'm not trying to be negative, but we know once Apple reveals the new iPhone, the world will go into a frenzy, and the Pre 3 will be ignored. This is what happened to the orginal Pre, the iPhone 3gs came out, and many people ignored the Pre.

Releasing the Pre 3 in the summer had a big competitive advantage, it was not competing with the new iPhone. If it doesn't release until the fall, I doubt the Pre 3 will sell well.

...ah man... you understand that, I understand that... the only problem is, HP doesn't give a **** about that. Or doesn't have a clue. Or both.

They are downright pathetic in their "efforts". Palm alone was moving faster, than with HP "backing" them up. Presumably, they are backing them up with corporate meetings, report requests, specification documents etc.