Whitman: decision on webOS to come “in the next two weeks” | webOS Nation
 
 

Whitman: decision on webOS to come “in the next two weeks” 163

by Derek Kessler Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:30 am EST

Three weeks ago HP CEO Meg Whitman told webOS Global Business Unit employees that she was still pondering what exactly to do with webOS, saying that HP would make that decision “in the next three-to-four weeks.” As was noted on last night’s PalmCast, we’re now into that three-to-four-week window, though Whitman has given HP a little bit of additional wiggle room.

In an interview with French news site Le Figaro, Whitman said that HP “should announce our decision in the next two weeks,” which pushes the decider deadline back to the middle of December. If you’ve been following webOS for any amount of time, you’ve likely gotten used to the waiting game, though we’re not sure which is worse: a vague “in the coming weeks/months” or getting a time frame and having it get pushed back. Granted, it’s only been by a week; we can’t imagine that a week’s delay will have all that big of an impact on the grand picture. Any announcement about a sale or resumption of webOS product development will result in at least several more months of waiting before actual product becomes available.

But there’s more to the interview. In fact, it’s the very next sentence after she touches on the fact that this decision will affect the 600 employees left in the webOS GBU. Whitman says that HP needs “to have another operating system.” Now, what exactly she means by that, we’re not entirely sure, but it seems to indicate that she doesn’t want to put all of HP’s eggs in the Windows 8 basket. That explains why webOS is still in contention for staying an HP property, but it also leaves open the door to them going with another OS, such as Android.

Source: Le Figaro (translated)

163 Comments

Decision will be made in the coming month......

Decision will be made in the coming weeks......

Decision will be made in the coming days.....

Same rhetoric, different company.

is just a shame.
they don't have any idea on what to do with webOS. simple and clear.

The future of webOS meetups -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4q6eaLn2mY

H/P should write a book: how to kill webOS slow but sure!

Whitman looks like she's singing "don't want no short d^&% men" at a Karaoke partay.

On another note... would HP buy webOS just to fire it out the door for ANDROID when they could have adopted ANDROID in the first place?

Would not be surprised. :)

I could actually see HP adopting android but heavily customizing it using elements from webOS that no one else can get away with using. Imagine having cards and webos style alerts elegantly integrated into Android. Combine that with all the extra stuff they can include from autonomy and they could have a very good looking android phone to stack up with all the rest.

...that is if they made decent hardware.

YES! HP should do that. You are a genius!

HP would definitely be wise to listen to this guy.

Agreed. That makes the most sense for the future of HP's smartphones / tablets.

web'ndroid. MAKE IT HAPPEN HP!

I think that Google has done most of the work already. It's called Ice Cream Sandwich. Cards...check. webOS style notifications...check. Decent hardware...well if HP had put webOS on decent hardware to begin with, we wouldn't be where we are today.

what is this I don't even

I don't know if you follow Android news, but Android now has cards and better notifications in Android 4.0 codename IceCream Sandwich.
I switched from a pre to Samsung Galaxy S2. I don't miss the pre at all. I do miss cards, but not enough to switch back. Now I'm looking forward to Android 4.0, which has something like the cards.

I follow closely all phone news and I am aware of their "cards" and its nothing close to webOS. HP could use webOS cards in Android. They should.

True. They aren't close. ICS is a successful product that consumers will pay full price for and enjoy. WebOS on the other hand....

I guess it's obvious why you and the replies following got so many thumbs down but I completely agree with you! WebOS is over but the patents can be of great use to HP and Android. The patents are the reason HP got into this in the first place. Ahh, I never thought of it this way. Now I am not so sad! Now I just hope HP really is doing this. They will blow HTC's Android phones out of the water and I won't even mention the other manufacturers ... :)

"In the next two weeks" and they keep announcing an announcement. Just make the fracking decision already

Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. ~Mark Twain

Do you know what happens when you give a procrastinator a good idea? Nothing! ~Donald Gardner

To think too long about doing a thing often becomes its undoing. ~Eva Young

Procrastination is opportunity's assassin. ~Victor Kiam

The best way to get something done is to begin. ~Author Unknown

sounds like me :(

This is not BSG; we can use real words here.

They didn't announce an announcement last time. That was an internal communication to the webOS division that was leaked.

This is the first official announcement.

Well after a Palm Pilot, Handspring, Palm Centro and a Palm Pre Plus, I think it's time to move on to Android also. How long does it take to figure out the last CEO was an idiot? I've seen enough. Goodbye Palm.

+1

Sorry GrandPubah... I pressed - instead of +

I gave a thumbs up to even it back out.

What took you so long? Jeez, the handwriting has been on the wall for like ... years. I would advise you to check out Phone 7 before switching to droid. Android is not as smooth, IMO.

That's a thought, I'm a .NET developer to boot. Phone 7 has some catching up to do in apps, but I'm used to that. I have until February to make my decision, when I can upgrade my phone.

You will be pleasantly surprised that most of the "gotta have" apps are already on WP7 and the people centric Metro design works really well. Even on older phones like the original focus Mango runs really well. Android, despite the apps and the hardware is just .... not what it should be IMO. Still good though.

I switched to iphone4s a few weeks ago.

Better than android - and boy is it really fast to open up simple apps - like Google Maps. 1.5 secs compared to 10 secs on my Sprint Pre. Same with the camera, and just about any app available.

And finally get to watch Netflix streams while I'm on the train. I had the Galaxy tab and HP Touchpad - but haven't turned either of them on since.

As far as people here (or consumers in general) are concerned, the only decision that matters was made LONG AGO: it's dead as a consumer tablet and smartphone product.

Even if Meg Whitman put out a press release five seconds from now saying they were restarting everything again at....ohhh...2x firesale price points, it would still be a wrap.

Kindle Fire (and to a much lesser degree, Nook Tablet) have eaten up the $199-ish tablet bandwidth for the holiday season and will have an insurmountable lead by the time a Touchpad or Touchpad Go could get back on the shelves in volume. Some Wal-Mart and Target stores are selling Fire tablets for $123.

Carriers definitely don't care about WebOS not matter what incentives HP tries, and they'd be more gunshy than ever given the way HP suddenly pulled the plug this summer.

Developers have moved on, for the most part. No bringing them back.

Don't see why people here haven't accepted that.

Some of these same factors (except for the developers moving on...they're at 40K apps and counting) are also working against Microsoft, who have WAAAAAAYYYY more things going for them in the mobile space than WebOS ever did.

Very well said! I think the current users of webOS are the true faithful, fanboys, whatever you want to call them. Their adherence to the platform is so much a part of them at this point that they can't let go, even if all the handwriting is on the wall. For these folks, it won't really matter what Whitman says. They have WebOSInternals's emergency kit and will be holding onto their old phones or tablet (potentially even buying "new" ones on eBay as these break) for years. It's not about logic anymore, but then love is not logical, right? ;-)

Personally, I went to Android last June. I feel for my webOS brethren, but could not keep myself and my family from enjoying the benefits of a major (living) platform with an active and large ecosystem, not to mention that I'm a developer and want to eventually produce mobile apps which are going to be downloaded by more than a few hundred people.

I guess I love the community more than I do the phones at this point, and having spend 5+ months using an Android phone, I know they can be tweaked enough to give you a perfectly good user experience. Ice Cream Sandwhich will only make it better...

You sir, I understand. I see why you are on here though you have switched. The others who just come in and say how dead WebOS is, I dont. They talk about how great the other platforms are and how we should just let it die already, but they are here with us, checking every day, like they want it to live.

Why do the "WebOS die already" people still come in here and make whatever comments they make.

"you should let WebOS die already" is what they tell us. If they dont come and check on it, then they can be happy with it being dead for them.

Just my opinion.

Your very last line is the answer. Everyone's here to give their opinion and not everyone will agree with every opinion posted. It's a little thing called "life".

Here's my opinion. "webOS is dead."

So, my question to you my good person is, "do you want it to live, or come back to life? Is that why you are here?"

I am not trying to start an argument, I just see quite a few people on here talking about how it is dead, and how we should let it die, but you and some others keep coming back to the pre-central (WebOS) site like you want it to come back. If you want it to come back with such passion, then go ahead and chant with us to bring it back.

The more you come here, the more it seems you want WebOS to succeed. Kinda like when little boys hit on little girls they like, but they are afraid to say it, or dont know how to say it.

Allow me to respond with my own questions.

Why do you care?
Why can't I state my opinion just like you have?
Why must anyone justify their presence on a public website?
Why can't we all just get along?

Ok, that last one was a bad Rodney King joke. Sorry. :-)

Taharka, you're always welcome to join us in dreaming about webOS. Like you, we'd all love it to be back.

Pass. But thanks.

These guys are Trolls and it's best to just ignore them, then they'll go away like all monsters under the bed.

Haha.

I read rodney dangerfield instead of king for some reason...

I can understand some people liked or used Palm products and got frustrated, now hate that it's fragged. but ppl that come to sites like this only to make waves, but have never tried the product... That annoys me [us]...

Honestly, I'd love to see WebOS to evolve to where it can be successful consumer smartphone and tablet platform. I wanted that when I bought my first Pre as soon as the Sprint Store opened that fateful June morning in 2009.

I'd love to win the Powerball tonight. I'd love for Homeland to win the Emmy for Best Drama next year. Plenty of things I would LOVE TO happen.

But I am realistic about which of those can and cannot occur. There is little doubt in my mind - despite how technically POSSIBLE it is that they will - that NONE of the things I listed above will actually occur. Does it mean I should renounce them because I cannot bend reality to my will?

LOL.

Honesty/reality: Getting downranked and eschewed from WebOS land since 2010.

I have been wondering what webOS' user base is after their fire sale even if only 1 billion of the write off was for discounted touchpad that works out to 2-3 million users of course some of those switched them over to Android.

Given that HP is not out of the HW business, they will have a tablet to sell. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Meg announces some new HW in the middle of December. If they sold a tablet that was dual boot WebOS and Android (or even Windows 8) right out of the box, that could be a huge.

The Touchpad already runs an older version of Android and Windows 8 is months from completion.

So...nope.

I'm not saying HP will have HW ready by the middle of december... just that she could announce new HW being developed. Windows 8 is a possibility.

So... maybe.

Windows 8 is a definite, not a possibility.

WebOS.....it's done in the consumer space except as a value-add giveaway.

yeah they've already stated that they are making windows 8 tablets. that's not a mystery.

Jesus! Dual boot is such a lame 1990's PC concept. Who the f*ck wants to dual boot their tablet or smartphone. The whole purpose of these devices is to pick them up and get what you want out of them in a few seconds. If you dual boot your tablet or smartphone then you are a 99th percentile nerd which HP should run away from as fast as they can.

Very few people would switch OSes after the fact, they would pick their flavor of boot and move on with their life. Why not give them the choice?

Because then people would have a hard time figuring out what apps are available. Someone goes to Best Buy and tries out Words With Friends on a TP and then goes home to find that WWF is not available for the OS that they booted into? That would be a complete retail failure and returns would skyrocket.

You might be right about confusing customers, however HP already sells laptops that dual boot right out of the box.

Yeah, laptop product strategies should work just awesome in the tablet space, huh?

I can appreciate peoples fascination with tablets and how it becomes easy to shun everything PC or laptop. However, tablets will need to borrow features from laptops or PCs if they ever want to become a productivity tool. Just look at the Asus Transformer Prime.

I would. Especially if they booted fast enough. If we are talking 5 seconds or less to switch OS' it wouldnt really be an issue. Eg on a laptop run webOS when you want simplicity, power savings!, data consumption and enviroment, Give me windows 7 for data creation, apps and games.

HP in the hW business needs to have a tablet

Using Android for a tablet is a no go - since there are/will be so many others, just not a good scene trying to elbow into that crowded pack.

With webOS, it can be separate, and integrated with other HP printers and computers makes sense.

Windows 7/8 is the other option, but that then DEPENDS entirely on Microsoft.

so, if one is head of HP would one really want to rely on either Google (android) or Microsoft (W7/8) for their operating system, or have they own proprietary one. Going for A or W will only make one part of a 'herd' - would be better to be distinguished.

btw - webOS was never quite executed properly. Just about every HW turned out was under powered and over priced for the system. Better to be both fast and cheap - that will get EVERYBODY's attention

better run WebOS and give it an emulator or whatever it needs to run Android apps. Only OS I would want on a phone other than WebOS is harmattan/meego which basically stole everything that was good about webOS from my understanding. Right now Im thinking that the N9 will be my next phone due to pre's being discontinued. The N9 at least will be guarenteed supported through 2015. Unfortunately no commitment like that about the pre 3. Why did both of my favorite OS' get cut? Talk about a bad year for my phone habit :(

"needs to have another operating system."

In addition to OpenVMS?

They also have HP-UX and non-stop. And I'm pretty sure they still support Tru-64, although development has stopped for it.

No surprise here. Same **** different day. Webos is dead and will not be coming back on tablets or phones, no matter what HP wants you to believe. The only way I see Webos being viable for HP to keep is to integrate it with their printers. However, even that is a stretch as it probably isn't that big of a selling point for people not familiar with Webos.

Looks like webOS still has a shot. Perhaps they are evaluating different product proposals before announcing the decision. Just saying they are keeping webOS wouldn't mean much without any roadmap.

I'm still hopeful, but it's looking like even if there is a webOS phone released eventually, I've been burned by Palm so much over the years, it will take a LOT to bring me back. I'm no longer a Palmist, I've learned to choose the device that fills my needs with the less trouble. iOS is boring yet mature and full of great productivity apps, Android 4.0 is starting to look better (still too messy for my taste), and WP7 is great, functionnal, stylish, just lacking apps.

So do we need webOS at this point? I'd say not really. We just want it to succeed for its sheer elegance (and perhaps sentimental attachment to Palm for some older folks here), but there are other good choices out there.

For sure, the moment they release a webOS superphone that performs all the tasks I need it to, I'd jump on it. Just to say, for the vast majority of people out there, it's not really needed.

We need WebOS because it is the best operating system out of all of them hands down. I have always been an Apple guy, but I have always felt they failed in their design of IOS.

Granted, their apps - garageband, etc.. Would be AWesome if my Pre3 or Touchpad had those.

>> Looks like webOS still has a shot

Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?

Mary: Not good.

Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?

Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.

[pause]

Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

LOL.

I used this on another P|C article. It's amazing how often that dialogue applies around here. Good stuff.

Yeah... I remember your post now. Sorry for the plagiarism.

Following the WebOS news is a bit like Déjà vu with coming weeks announcements, hope/denial, anger, more coming weeks, more hope/denial and anger, more...

Eventually every WebOS fan will accept reality. Maybe someday, I too, won't care enough to bother following WebOS news but now I'm in for the joy of watching the train wreck.

In the coming weeks, in the coming months, what's the difference?

The difference is "in the coming weeks" is shorter than "in the coming months" by about 1 character. :-)

lol

My guess is its already sold.

The longer this goes on, the more of a sense I get that Meg wants to figure out how to make webOS work at HP. I hope what is going on is that she has decided she wants to revive it, and is now trying to make sure that it is truly feasible, that she has the full support of the personnel required to revive it, and that there is a solid long term plan in place before she announces the decision. In medicine, we have a phrase called "laying the crepe". It means that when we can tell that a patient is not going to do well, need a certain procedure, or receive a bad diagnosis, we slowly start to introduce that notion to the family a little bit at a time, so that when it occurs they aren't blindsided. It seems to me that Meg is doing the same, lowering the earnings forecasts, talking about the need for innovation, dedicating resources to R&D, saying that it will be at least 3 years before HP sees real return on investment for the innovation, and now saying they need to have an alternative OS to Windows.

All of that could be the just what I want to believe given that I desperately want to see webOS continue to live on and improve, but maybe it's like when the jury is out deliberating for a long time. It's easy to return the guilty verdict quickly. At the very least, I think it is fair to say that whatever decision is made, the Meg isn't making it lightly and understands the impact on people's lives it will have. At least she is doing a great job of making it appear that way.

I think she is different from Leo in that she won't just accept a $3B loss and go around smiling. She wants a ROI from webOS, and looking for a way to do that. Whether it's as a tablet, smartphone, printer(lol), whatever, she doesn't want to let it go so easily.

Yes, Whitman needs to make a good business case for webOS either for selling or keeping it or her reign as ceo will be very limited. The investment world is watching carefully. But I think webOS will not be killed immediately otherwise that would be the first post-thanksgiving memo to webos team.

I do hope you are right, but knowing HP as I have come to I doubt it.

I think HP is trying their best to work out a scenario unde which they can reasonably expect to make money from webOS. If they can arrive at numbers that look appealing, they will stick with it. If they can't, they won't.

Even though they may not want to depend solely on Windows 8 for the Tablet market, that's not reason enough to keep webOS - they could do an Andoid tablet and put their own spin on the user interface after all. I think the main criticisms I've heard about Android is the clunkiness of the UI, so if they can worthwhile improvements to that (assuming ICS hasn't already addressed them satisfactorily), then that may be a better bet for them than trying to address the issues of webOS (lack of Apps, price point, performance challenges)

I desperately hope that HP keeps wOS. I don't ever want to see this comedy come to an end. At this point, I can't tell if HP killed wOS or if wOS killed HP. Either way, long live the nut jobs. In my book, this episode will always be #1+ :)

As for the delay in a decision, that just means they haven't found anyone who wants to buy it.

The comedy comes from the fact that many of the people who are begging for HP to bring WebOS back are also the same ones who vowed never to buy an HP product again.

There's no position on these boards that isn't pliable and fickle, yet they criticize HP for being the same. First, the Veer was an awesome idea and a great companion to the TouchPad, then it was a stupid idea....post-mortem, of course.

The Touchpad launch pricing was awesome - indicating a quality product above cheap Honeycomb tablets and leaving them plenty of room for various discounts that would just RACK UP the consumers during the holiday and back-to-school seasons. Then it was a dumb idea that should've never happened...post-mortem, of course.

Don't forget about HP being she savior of webOS due to it's scale...until it wasn't.

webOS' floodgates will be flung wide open when (insert one of a dozen "events" here)...until it didn't.

If she says, the next 3-4 weeks, what she really means is the next 3-4 months.
http://www.geekchoice.com

Having moved to Android recently, I will say that webos has some nice features and could be a contender with the right leadership. Watching HP lately is like watching a monkey trying to hump a football.... only 1 thing is for sure at this point, HP does not possess the leadership needed to revive webos.

"Watching HP lately is like watching a monkey trying to hump a football...."

I just about fell out of my chair laughing at that; the spasms of laughter are still coming making it hard for me to type this even now.

Is that on the web? I've never seen that and I've seen a lot!

At this point, she has to be thinking about what it would be like to bring a webOS tablet to market about six months after the launch of the iPad 3. Can you imagine? Talk about DOA.

Or, what it would be like going to carriers with yet another webOS smartphone next Summer when they have iPhones, Androids, and Windows Phone devices coming out of their ears.

These launches would also have to occur after about six months of mobile silence in order to not repeat the launch vs availability debacles that killed them in the past. That means no activity, at all, with this platform for most of 2012. And, any delusions of HP's influence among retail partners, carriers, etc. will have been dismissed long ago so developers would be crazy not to jump ship.

It's obvious what conclusion she will come to. webOS will never be competitive. Ever. Being the fourth or fifth place mobile platform is a losing proposition all-around. There is no point in throwing good money after bad. If they can't find someone who will buy it then they will just sh*t can it - hardware and software.

Any potential buyers will have the same problems coming to market with WebOS. There is really no way to make money with it as a tablet/phone OS anymore.

Maybe someone will run the numbers and decide it has value as a fancy embedded OS on a printer or a digital camera, but I doubt it.

God I hate it when someones opinion I don't like or want to be true is true. I think yo've hit it on the head here and it'd very sad.

So, will she be coming back next week to say the decision will be made in the next week?

How stupid....typical leadership of webOS. Apparently being in control of webOS automatically makes you stupid.

Sigh - wanted a new webOS phone badly with updated hardware/screen size, instead I bought two TPs for under $200. My original Palm Pre is on its fifth replacement and the replacement's screen is overly sensitive and it BSODs (Black, not blue) one too many times to count. New features aren't forthcoming and with the great deals for Black Friday, I couldn't put my phone concerns on-hold any longer. I'll be switching to AT&T with my one cent Titan. I couldn't afford a Pre 3 via EBay and Franken-Pre'ing wasn't really an option. I'll still have my TPs so if new phone hardware is eventually released I can consider coming back to the fold. I hope that is the case - a great OS that got Biotch-slapped one-too-many times...sigh...stinkin' HP...

It is funny how people are talking about how HP killed WebOS and switching to Android . HP never really killed WebOS as it was pretty much dead when they bought it. They may have kicked it when it was down but to say they killed it is a bit of an overstatement. I love webOS and I still like HP and I think with Meg in charge, they might actually make some headway. As for the Android thing, I don't see why you would. It is laggy, takes so many extra steps do things, and multitasking on it sucks. But maybe that is just my opinion of it.
Idk, I just feel like ranting a bit.
I agree that if they do keep webOS then mending bridges with carriers will be a **** You need to burn some bridges to light your way though.
Anyway, all I have left to say is nothing is impossible and webOS will never take off unless someone really dedicates to it. I think HP may be the only people who will because if someone else actually does buy it they probably won't do anything with(patents) and IF they actually do it will never please the crazed people of tech.

FWIW, the HTC Titan isn't an Android phone; I wouldn't buy an Android phone nor would I take one if it was given to me for free...except to resell it :)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/17/htc-titan-review/

Techiedude

WebOS was hanging from the edge of the cliff when HP bought it.

It was still hanging from the cliff six months later.

Last August, HP stomped on its fingers and it fell to a crumpled heap on the canyon floor.

Now HP wonders what to do with the body.

They don't have the same choices they had a year ago.

Last February, HP stomped the fingers on the right hand and in August they stomped the fingers on the left hand and it fell to a crumpled heap on the canyon floor.

*yawn* Then in two weeks, she'll decide she needs a few more weeks to decide, and a few more weeks after that, and so on. This is getting comical.

The key is how to monetize Palm's assets... WebOs is a very elegant OS that could be licensed to Samsung HTC and Amazon and HP could use Pivot model to have e-zines where people cam also click and buy... it could be anew way of getting revenue streams. I think that Pivot is a great idea and if it's patented, it could be proven to be a great asset if properly exploited. You'd have pivot for music, books, movies, auctions (ebay anyone!!),gardening, house, weddings, etc... Amazon could do a lot with it and push things much further than what they could do with Kindle fire and Samsung/HTC would have an option to fight Google/Motorola and Nokia/Microsoft... in such case, HP won't do phones and Tablets except for the corporate world (WebOs has the possibility to be developed and tuned for enterprise, it already has a lot built in for that)... Autonomy could also help have advanced services competing with Siri... There is much potential and shouldn't be wasted. Let's hope that Meg knows that or at least someone at HP understands it.

A magazine is not a differentiating feature. Anyone ad agency can put one together.

You can't patent a digital magazine. Are you serious when you actually say that, or just naive?

Wasn't this a running gag in that movie, _The_Money_Pit_ ? Every time they asked the contractors when the house would be finished... TWO WEEKS!

you sound like a tweety bird: "two-weeks... two-weeks..."

yep, that was The Money Pit.

that's why I ordered my Motorola Photon 4G android powered device and got them last night. 2 years on webOS, which I prefer and love, but it began to appear there was nothing left to hope for down the pike. I'll be happy to move on to another webOS device when one becomes available and I can afford it, if they can ever figure out how to make that happen. I spent a whopping $.96 on each phone,

After 11+ years as a loyal Palm/Pre fan WebOS just got the boot in my family in favor of iPhone.

WebOS being the market highly innovative underdog only goes so far after HP has, since February, basically cr@pped all over their users by abandoning one hardware product after another. Not only did HP soft market their new products they soft dropped their abandoned products leading users on and on with vague promises to support us. Before "Think Beyond" I would have bought a TouchPad or a Pre3 without thinking. But with how they treated Pre users I had no trust HP wouldn't treat TouchPad owners the same way and decided not to buy a TouchPad when they did become available... But, I never expected HP to scr3w TouchPad users after only a couple months like they did.

Feeling betrayed by HP I love watching their every moment of self imposed doom. HP deserves this after the way they treated their customers.

There is no WebOS for me in the coming weeks... months... or years.

So far I can truly say I am impressed by Meg Whitman.. Say you want about WebOS being dead but from what I saw in the Black Friday sales ads & seeing people wait in line for their Touchpad Tablet..

Yeah, it's nice to see people buying touchpaads, nice to see them paired up w/ computers to gain more sales and create incentives for buyers. It's just nice to see that even through all the hysteria that Leo brought to HP & WebOS that she is some how putting it in the right direction.

Almost feels like a 'managed by committee' scenario, eh?

Regardless of the outcome (sale, resumption or end-of-the line), I feel we need to all see this as what it is:

--> A *possible* return from the dead for WebOS.

Yes, I said it: WebOS is currently dead. Pains me to say it, but, it's true.

A word of caution: just like in the movies -- things don't always resurrect back to what they were. Sometimes, when it's a horror movie, the thing that comes back from the grave is a disfigured monster (think WebOS printer).

That said: we all can dream and my dream has WebOS back in the game. Here's hoping!

We need PreCentral to draw another cartoon... This one of a "Zombie WebOS Printer", or a "Franken Pre Printer".

New hit game: "Printers vs Zombies"

Can a Zombie be killed by multiple paper cuts?

@cmahy

I hear you....sometimes dead is better!

The mentioned HP at 0:23 - 0:28

"It's worse than dead... (shocked look)... His brain is gone!"

wasn't that Leo?

LOL

As I've stated in some of my forum posts, I'm a latecomer to webOS - took the bait on a firesale TouchPad (HP SMB snafu), bought an eBay-ed Veer to test the waters while waiting for the TP to ship, and I have to admit that I almost missed one of the most pleasant mobile computing experiences available!

That said, fact-of-the-matter is that computers are going mobile - the "post-PC" era is upon us, and HP needs to re-evaluate their stance in a hurry. The first HP devices were a bit of a stumble (TP, Pre3, Veer), but HP shouldn't quit the race entirely. Leo may have FUBAR'd the PSG's image, but with the right combination of:

1) Re-vived product line (spend the R&D, dang it!)
2) Developer support (again, spend the money)
3) End-user relations (evangelism!)

...Meg might just be able to bring the webOS ship around.

Apple did it - they renewed their product offerings (original iMac and G3 lines, simplified product matrix), courted developers by helping out with transitional tools (Classic/Cocoa tools, free XCode suite), and flat-out banged the drum with end-users (Think Different, Switch to Mac, iPod Silhouettes). And this started back when they were hemorrhaging cash, with no clear direction - they turned themselves around. Meg may not be Steve Jobs, but she sure ain't Leo 2.0.

Revive the Pre3! Finish the TouchPad Go! Re-ignite developers around Enyo and HTML5! GET DEVICES INTO PEOPLE'S HANDS TO SHOW THEM HOW GREAT webOS IS!

Better late than never!

Sigh....people love to cite Apple's turnaround, but don't look closely enough at how Apple did it nor their competition at the time.

The iMac was a PC form factor unlike any other during a time of flavorless gray boxes.

You want HP to relaunch against multiple colorful, modern touch-based mobile operating systems with a variety of form factors, price points, and apps....with the same products that landed that have failed again and again.

A Pre 3 with a slightly bigger screen and aluminum or glass materials isn't going to change the game. A slimmer Touchpad that will have to compete with rapidly dropping prices from tablet competitors like the Kindle Fire will not change anything. Spend all of the money you want on apps....Microsoft has Netflix, Soundhound, Exclusive Xbox live arcade games, Zune, Office, Spotify, Kinectimals, and quite a few other big name apps and THEY have barely been able to move the needle thus far.

It's not as easy as come out with a cool-looking slab, get new apps, slap a modern OS on it, and voila...PROFIT. The market - while expanding - is actually narrowing in terms of choice. The bar is getting higher and it would be madness to try and clear it with products that failed when the bar was lower several months ago.

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The bar is getting higher and it would be madness to try and clear it with products that failed when the bar was lower several months ago.
***

Indeed. It's like Microsoft resurrecting the Kin in order to compete rather than reinventing themselves with WP7.

Actually, I was a Mac user (and vocal evangelist) since *before* the return of Jobs. I dealt with the same "give it up, it's dead" attitude then, too.

Apple's turnaround was ignited by the idea of a consolidated and focused approach to its products, *with a long-term strategy to execute*. The iMac certainly was a catalyst, unlike other "flavorless grey boxes" that it was launched alongside, but it would've failed if Apple didn't commit to continuing the line.

The Pre3, in-and-of itself was not a failure, as it sold quickly before it was discontinued *ONE DAY LATER*. Neither of us can say that if the Pre3 was launched officially in the US, it would've succeeded or failed - HP killed it before it had the chance to prove itself. I'd like to think it would've sold well, as it still fetches a good price on CraigsList and eBay - well above the typical subsidized cost of devices it's competing against. The TouchPad was a disaster on price and positioning, true... but the TouchPad Go had promise, especially with cost subsidy from AT&T.

I'm not saying that simply re-launching the Pre3 and TP/TP Go would be a recipe for instant success - far from it - I'm saying that HP can capitalize on its mistake by getting developers back on board, and EVANGELIZE the platform like they should've from the start. Get new apps out there for all of the new TP owners. Re-release the Pre3, TP and TP Go at near cost, or slightly below (the parts and fabs should still be available), and flesh out the successor devices that were on the drawing boards. Most importantly, have "brand ambassadors" - people who love and KNOW webOS - to do live demos at retail, promote the developer Meet-Ups, get the devices into people's hands to try them out! I've let others try my Veer - although the size of the device is polarizing, everyone loved how fluid and elegant webOS was.

Yes, the market is rife with assorted hardware (how many different Galaxy Tabs is Samsung going to put out?), and a consolidation in ecosystems, but I can see webOS as holding its own - if HP can get its act back on track.

I can't say that I have all of the answers, but I'm not giving up on webOS... especially since I just got into it!

You're right about not being able to conclusively state that the Pre 3 would or wouldn't have failed.

But if you consider the track record of WebOS devices -- the Pre, Pixi, Pre Plus, Pixi Plus, Pre 2, Veer, and TouchPad -- you can't ignore that every single WebOS product failed miserably. The market resoundingly rejected each and every device. For all the excuses that have been made for why WebOS devices fail so spectacularly, Occam's Razor suggests that people just don't want a niche mobile operating system that runs slower than the competition, does less than the competition, and offers fewer apps than the competition.

It's like pricing a hamburger at the same price as a porterhouse then being shocked when everybody buys the premium cut of meat.

not only that there was pretty much zero buzz about the Pre 3 outside of webos sites. I have not doubt Pre 3 would not have sold well outside of the webos lovers.

my opinion.

I think we need more practical solutions for webOS to succeed. HP or whatever other buyer's goal is to make an eventual profit on webOS devices. The problem is that webos devices cost too much with hardware and software development costs and sell too few devices to recoup costs. One suggestion I heard a while ago was to get webOS to work with other mobile nonqualcomm processors. Then webOS can be put on other devices like samsungs, htc at lower costs and the selling prices can reflect this. The costs are lower because all hardware is same as android devices and manufacturing has been set up already. webOS fans get a cutting edge hardware device and continue to enjoy webOS. The question is whether HP just rebrands these devices as its own or allow those companies to sell their own webos devices. The risk is lower for everyone and if the webos versions don't sell well, they can just flash android os on the units. Same idea can be applied to phones. I would be fine with android hardware that runs webOS and there are so many form factors to choose from. I think creative ideas like this is the only way webos can survive.

I think the problem is with statements like "the Pre 3 was not a failure" i get the idea that you like it and like webos as it currently is. But Apple very much gutted their failing products when Jobs returned.

Apple's turnaround was about a complete change. Jobs returned, They fired a bunch of people. Jobs brought in his people. Ruby being one of them in the beginning. And a big thing is they got rid of failing products, like the bad macs and stuff like the Newton. To do the same thing at HP they'd need some genius person to come in like jobs did, fire all the dead weight, that is all the people **** up before, And dump the failing products which right now is every webos device. Additionally, Jobs changed the OS on macs When apple bought his former company NEXT. That computer OS was the foundation for OSX. So along with getting rid of poorly selling products they had fundamental changes to the OS on the Macs that were not selling.

The equivalent for HP would be, cancel some failing products, hire a vision having CEO, fire tons of Palm employees that have been making poorly selling devices for years, and like Apple bought Next to buy some company with an OS and put that on their devices to replace webos.

Now i don't think anyone here wants that because flaws and all they like webos. But if you want to do an apple, that's what apple did.

How did HP NOT do any of this the first time around?!?!

They HAD a developer relations team. they had evangelists. They boasted of committments in "the tens of thousands". Rahul Sood wouldn't shut up about it on Twitter. They continued the "Hot Apps" contests. They had developer meetups in various cities. They replaced Ben and Dion with Richard Kerris as lead evangelist in February just as things were ramping up. They put demo stations for the Touchpad and Veer at hundreds of Best Buy locations.

This idea that HP didn't "commit" is demonstrably false. They committed hundreds of millions in R&D and big time advertising in print, TV, online, and even Twitter. They opened up a lot of their supply channel, claimed they were putting on PCs and netbooks as well as printers, phones and tablets. I mean, they would've given WebOS the sky....

...if it would've sold at even a minimally profitable price point. It never did.

None of the devices were ever successful. On any carrier or with any retailer. Or under either manufacturer.

I will agree with most of this but I don't think they spent the money wisely. Did they spent 100's of millions in webOS or device development? From what I could gather they pulled back on webOS 2.x completely and put everything in 3.x and still the TP were released 2 months too early. (first 3.0 devices were really slow, buggy until first update) Demo units were ridiculously slow in stores and the TP was overpriced. So all that publicity, push wasn't coordinated with a mature device. The lukewarm reviews of the TP didn't help. So yes, hp spent lots of cash but their execution was really bad. And 2 months was too short of a trial. RIM is doing poorly with playbook, motorola had slow Xoom sales but they stuck with the devices. HP got scared and then ran away not only from webOS but consumer hardware and that birngs us to the current mess.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong. I'm sure there's some truth to it, that they didn't spend everything wisely, but i'm sure they spent a lot of it on stuff the faithful said would work. I think HP bought the precentral koolaid. And when they did stuff i didn't hear the faithful objecting before. They loved the pacquio ads and they loved the veer and it wasn't too small and any issue with webos was shouted down. It was never sluggish. The faithful said BestBuy was full of people buying them right up until best buy was sending them back. What they really should have been saying was exactly what the skeptics where, "that tiny phone won't work scrap it", "release a slab phone they sell", no wonder the guys in the podcast rave about the galaxy nexus hardware and say that's what sells and how good webos would be on it. That's a no-brainer to all but the faithful and their vertical keyboards. They should have been saying, "It's February and you're announcing a 720p camera for launch in like August when top camera's will come with 1080p? Don't do that."

But people said the products weren't good enough before in Feb but nobody wanted to listen.

I recall reading posts on PreCental and in the forums from webOS fans who voiced constructive criticism of the weOS devices released by HP this year, citing the strengths as well as the shortcomings.

I recall that too along with much of it being deleted/edited and many of the posters banned.

If it wasn't "constructive" or "polite" enough, perhaps it was because of how massive, wide-reaching, and impending market failure of WebOS products was.....and wouldn't you know it...

THEY WERE RIGHT.

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And 2 months was too short of a trial. RIM is doing poorly with playbook, motorola had slow Xoom sales but they stuck with the devices. HP got scared and then ran away...
***

Just 48 days after Microsoft began selling the Kin, a smartphone for the younger set, the company discontinued it because of disappointing sales. -- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/01/technology/01phone.html

Point: It's not unheard of to kill a product that has failed (even if the failure is noticed in under 2 months).

The difference between HP and those companies is that HP is not primarily a smartphone or tablet company. So there is no reason for them to continue to throw good money from profitable products after bad.

RIM, Motorola and the rest don't have that luxury.

I also find the reasoning odd that it was supposedly HP's fault because they didn't bring "mature" products to market. That's on the Palm engineers who'd been working on the same buggy, laggy OS since late 2008. HP gave them resources and relative autonomy, and they still couldn't churn out ONE well-polished and smooth version in three years of development.

Sounds like they're in the middle of working a deal with someone and will be able to announce in a couple of weeks.

Let's see...what companies that haven't been accounted for YET really need an awesome mobile OS that will guarantee success in this field?

AMD?

Meizu?

Epson?

Friendster?

Highlights for Children Magazine?

Chipotle?

Golden Corral?

WebOS could still own the mobile market.

Not mobile like phones, but mobile like the hanging strings you put over a crib.

Whatever the deal is, it won't affect webOS in the mobile market. That avenue is dead.

^ Exactly. They have something planned. They do. They really do.

You keep spouting this **** all over the place, posting fake photoshops of "Windows 8 with webOS" on Touchpads (the Touchpad 3 you claimed), and got yourself banned from the forums here and at XDA.

Stop it. Just stop it.

For me it doesnt matter anymore. Hp closed its doors for me when they decided to not update my pre-. Yesterday I went and picked up a set of iPhone 4s for me and my wife. I can't believe how deprived of apps we were on our pres. Although I'm very annoy of how ios5 handles multitasking and closing apps I have no other choice but to get used to it. That's mainly cuz of hps doing. So I say let it die. It's in a coma with no sign of brain activity. Pull the plug already so the rest of us can move on with their lives

^ We could do that...or we can let webOS transform into what it was originally supposed to be.

It's just a few updates away from being Bigger. Badder. And BETTER.

Meg Whitman is the woman that's about to give it a chance.

Like she said, "We need another Operating System."

The Six Stages of Grief
1) Denial
2) Acceptance
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance
6) LOL at those who still believe.

If you already at stage 6, you can laugh at me all you want. (still believing)

Me too!

I honestly hope WebOS succeeds but it's just not gonna happen. If it were to succeed and attract a significant customer base I would be happy to eat my words. But until then I'm not gonna waste another dollar due to a religious adherence to an Operating System that never lives up to it's potential and coasts on vaporware promises.

DreamOWD got banned from Precentral's forums and even XDA over this kind of **** trolling users.

Hasn't webOS ALWAYS been a few updates away from being bigger/badder/better? The bar has never sat still to wait and it is unlikely that it ever will.

Heh, I think webOS has just never moved forward long enough to catch up. Looking at the other OS' it seems it takes about 1-2 years of big investment and pushing to gain traction and catch the others, webOS has not had that at all. Though last I saw a solid comparison they were ahead of WP7 market share wise, though behind WP7 and Windows Mobile combined.

Why do yuo come around here when you've been banned at PreCentral AND XDA?

Because I haven't been banned!

My Pre- is slowly dying, and I'll probably be replacing it with an iPhone 4S soon. I guess I'll always be the renegade (non Android user) in my house. I like all of the stuff that's made to go with Apple products too like the phone cases with the Bluetooth keyboard for a keyboard person like myself.

It's been very disappointing to see what has become webOS.

I guess one's hope could be measured by what they want from WEBOS.

I want phones and there is no hope or it is hopeless.

Some want tablets and there is a glimmer of hope or they are hopeful.

Some want self igniting printers and there is real f'ing chance here.

I'd like a self igniting printer...but with laser beams on its head.

The people I really feel for in this whole debacle are the remaining 600 employees of the WebOS team. They are in a much worse limbo than we are because their jobs are on the line. I'm sure that they have all polished their resumes and have at least put out feelers for job prospects but I would hope they get the memo before the rest of us do.

We would like to keep WebOS, they would like to keep their livelihood. Which matters more? (btw, that's rhetorical - I'm sure some would answer 'WebOS' ;) )

True.

Palm built many excellent inspiring products over the years but were continually betrayed by inept and bland management. Palm and Palm employees deserved better.

I know the job market is tough right now, but any of those 600 employees that are taking a wait and see approach are doing themselves a disservice. Like you said, this is their livelihood we're talking about. That's something they should stay in charge of always.

The job market for competent software engineers and other folks in the software industry has never been better, actually. Can't find enough qualified people in almost every major city.

It's the marketing and non-technical positions where it gets hairy.

Regardless, if HP dumps webOS, I hope they all find fantastic positions.

i'm not sure the part about needing another operating system is translated correctly. But i don't speak french. But the original said exploitation. I'm utterly guessing but maybe she meant that they need another way to exploit it. deciding what to do isn't easy as in we have 600 people in flux but the problem is we need another way to exploit webos. I don't know just a guess/random utterly not based on understanding french opinion.

With this much damage done, I just don't see how they can recover no matter who is in charge.

this other OS does not include tablets - unless it's Android, which HP is testing. For the first time, HP IT now supports Android devices as a mobile (and preferred) option for phones connecting to their network. Major change as webOS devices are no longer an option and the support is winding down on them. A company issued Pre2 dies, don't expect an exchange, expect an Android phone.

It's already being confirmed across several news outlets that Whitman has decided to sell WebOS off...on Ebay.

I've been hoping Amazon would buy webOS and meld it with Android, but HP could do the same thing. Make decent hardware with slick accessories, keep the best webOS elements (cards, Synergy, Just Type), but have access to the Android catalog of apps.