WiFi throwing wrench into email push | webOS Nation
 
 

WiFi throwing wrench into email push 68

by Derek Kessler Sun, 24 Jan 2010 6:35 pm EST

Email Even in these days of instant communications through text messages, instant messaging, and Twitter, there’s something to be said for the robustness (and openness) of email. Thus, when email goes wonky you can be assured that there will be noise made of it. While this blogger’s Gmail-not-pushing issue managed to magically resolve itself, other users have noticed a different problem with their email: push simply doesn’t work over WiFi, and for some in that group their email pushes very late (10-15 minutes) over EVDO. And of course, there are those who simply can’t get push email to work at all.

We feel your pain, and even though signs point to the issue not being a widespread one, we would be remiss if we didn’t ask around. So here we are, asking, with the preferred mass data gathering method of politicians and the media alike: the poll. And as an added bonus, you can also comment on this article (like any other). In particular, if you’ve had this sort of issue and figured out how to resolve it, we’re all ears.

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68 Comments

never had a single problem with my 1und1 exchange account

the only email I am having problems with is yahoo. I have an exchange and gmail accounts that work perfectly but my yahoo, never pushes, I have to manually hit refresh for it to pull the emails.

I have a gmail account and an aol account both set to push, the gmail one always has worked perfectly for me, but the aol one stopped pushing email a few weeks ago. It used to work fine though. All this is over evdo, I rarely use wifi.

And I know this is not an issue with my phone itself, because I just got a replacement a few days ago because of an unrelated issue, and this phone and my old phone both didn't work with aol push

Keep in mind there are many GSM users. I got halfway thru the article before realising it didn't apply to me.

As far as I know, all GSM phone have wifi and it's a wifi issue as Derek clearly points out, and it affects only a small percentage of users as Derek clearly points out.

And yes, we know you still can't get paid apps after two months, even though the rest of us had to wait 5 months to pay for recipes from Sri Lanka, I assure you we right handed, Oxygen breething, EVDO, on Sprint, with wifi, non video users are all crying flood stage rivers over the inhumane oppression you're enduring for reading about problems you don't have, YET.

You are missing an option on the poll:

* I use or get so little Email on the phone, I don't know if there is a problem

my gmail is fine, but my yahoo sometimes pushes, and other times doesn't even register I've got a new message even when I hit refresh.

Ive had problems in the past but solved them by deleting the account and setting them up again i haven't had issues sense.

My gmail is kinda weird. Yahoo pushes, but asks me for password like 100 times a day...

A while back my email was not pushing on Yahoo/Hotmail, but started working again after I removed and reinstalled them.

I don't have any email push problems. I'm using two GMail accounts and two email accounts on my private server. All are pushing.

I don't really like push email that much anyway. I like pull. It gives me an excuse when I don't feel like replying to someone right away that I don't want to reply to, but I know I'm going to see in a couple hours and will ask me if I "got their email". I know a number of these people. I suppose I wouldn't complain if push was working better over wifi, but either way, it doesn't hurt me any.

Gmail AND Yahoo are wonky on mine since the last 2 updates. I tried the Doctor even and that had no effect.

my gmail hasn't worked on wifi for a while, and deleting it ans readding doesn't help.

New emails seem to push fine on my Gmail and exchange accounts but any changes like read or unread status seems schizophrenic at best. I thought it had something to do with poor reception but now after reading this I remember that I didn't have these problems before 1.3.5.x.

I need to open the email app to get any new emails. Otherwise I will never know I have new emails. I only use Gmail

ugh. I wish people would stop referring to what webos has as "push" mail. Its not.

the only devices doing push are blackberries. And that is because RIM Provides the infrastructure for it.

IMAP Idle is NOT push mail. It is a standard tcp connection that allows a server to notify a client when a new message is available without the client polling. The client still needs to maintain a connected socket to the server for it to work.

its "wonky" because the above is hard to maintain while your phone is constantly connecting and disconnecting to networks, thus breaking the above mentioned socket. Webos's implementation of wifi isn't the greatest in my testing, which definitely contributes to the problems.

I don't have any real issues, but admittedly use my own servers. Is it the type of true instantaneous push I used to get from BIS? Not by a long shot. It can never achieve that, as ITS NOT PUSH. But it works as well as one can expect. But the constant connect/disconnect while on wifi is puzzling, and frustrating as I don't know why webos would do that.

forgive typos. I saw this and just had to respond and only have my phone.

You're certainly welcome to define "push mail" as always and exclusively blackberry, if you please. Most of the rest of the world seems content to call imap idle push email, even without the vaunted RIM infrastructure.

Yes, when you switch networks, the client has to re-establish the connection. So? In my experience, it does it seemlessly. There are many things that I have to complain about WebOS email client, but this isn't one of them.

Further, I think that you're ignoring huge risks associated with RIM's infrastructure. Most notably the repeated outages that results from being dependent on that infrastructure.

In exchange for not having the RIM infrastructure, those of us with imap idle only have outages when our server infrastructure is down. And by it's distributed nature, it's really hard to imagine how a single outage could impact all imap idle users.

The point? RIM's infrastructure provides what you call "true push" in exchange for being a centralized single point of failure. Me, I'll take a "wonky" non-problem over a architectural single point of failure.

To each his own.

This post isn't about RIM's infrastructure. It is used as an example of what a push infrastructure is. IMAP Idle is not a push architecture, no matter how much you want to call it that.

Educate Yourself

Sorry, all these 'early adopters' were not aware the jargon was clearly defined when smart phones were first released about 6 or 7 years ago. Give them another year or two, then they'll understand.

you first need to understand imap idle, to understand what's going on here. imap idle works by sending a ping and leaving the http connection open, and waiting 15 minutes for a response. when you switch ip addresses, by switching to wifi, sprint giving you another connection, or your phone resetting the conection because of connectivity issues, the connection is closed, and it's not till the next time the email app tries to open a connection 15 minutes later that it connects again. the email app has no idea the http connection was reset. exchange push works in a similar way.

Personally, I wish someone with the skills to do so would follow up on the work done here months ago, and turn this idea into a Preware-compatible patch:

http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/187119-sms-push-email-mo...

The *voice* network connection (also used by SMS) is a hell of a lot more power-efficient than keeping a *data* connection alive as well, even using IMAP IDLE. The best thing I ever did to improve my battery life on my old Treo 700p was to start using ChatterEmail's SMS triggering feature. All the "instant gratification" of push email, but without the power-wasting *data* networking of either scheduled polling or IMAP IDLE reconnections.

Hmm, maybe I'll post this in the "patch requests" thread in the forums...

Picking nits.

1) No ping is ever sent in the establishment of an IMAP connection. Ping is ICMP based. IMAP is TCP based.

2) IMAP is a completely independent protocol from http. An IMAP client does not use http to establish a connection to an IMAP server. It uses IMAP. Which typically runs on TCP port 143 or TCP port 993 when run in conjunction with SSL. But both of these are configurable.

3) IMAP IDLE works by the client establishing an IMAP connection to the IMAP server, then issuing the IDLE command. The server and the client then keep the connection open but don't use it until either side does something. On the server side, it will typically un-IDLE the connection to inform the client that new email has arrived. On the client side, it could un-IDLE the connection in order to get the body of an email it doesn't have - usually in response to the user requesting it. The server *may* disconnect if IDLE client doesn't re-issue the IDLE command every so often. The RFC recommends that this interval by 29 minutes. But this requires almost no effort on the client's part. It simply re-issues the IDLE command.

4) Linux will notify all connection holders when the interface has changed IP addresses (e.g. WIFI roaming). It will also notify all connection holders when one interface is brought down and another brought up (e.g. swithing between EVDO and WIFI or vice versa). If the WebOS email application doesn't handle these events, that's a problem for the application. It's not a protocol issue.

RFC 2177 describes IMAP IDLE: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2177

All my email works fine over EvDo, and sometimes it wont send over WiFi. But i have my work email account and a hotmail account on my Pre and so far no real big issues.

no problems here. EAS and Google both work just fine for me.

Same here. EAS and Gmail and they both seem fine.

Again, same here and it wasn't always that way for me on my Corp EAS and Google, now are working and waiting for 1.4 too see if things change!?!

BTW, after the 1.3.5 update, I talked with my IT and it was supposed to be on our end that we had an older version of EAS on our servers that cause this problem with EAS? They were in contact with Palm for the problem and since I have not had it! Just a suggestion for those with Exchange.

both over wifi and edvo, my gmail will push fine, and then completely stop. I have to go to my inbox and refresh manually, and suddenly I will get a flood of new emails. After refreshing, it will start pushing again and then stop until I manually refresh again. It's very very frustrating and I've been waiting for months for it to resolve itself, but it hasn't. For the first few months that I had the pre, it pushed perfectly well and then all of the sudden, this started happening. I'm hoping the new 1.4 update will fix it, but I'm not so sure. Please palm, do something!!!

Email mysteriously wouldn't pick up for one day recently, but, other than that, fine.

both over wifi and edvo, my gmail will push fine, and then completely stop. I have to go to my inbox and refresh manually, and suddenly I will get a flood of new emails. After refreshing, it will start pushing again and then stop until I manually refresh again. It's very very frustrating and I've been waiting for months for it to resolve itself, but it hasn't. For the first few months that I had the pre, it pushed perfectly well and then all of the sudden, this started happening. I'm hoping the new 1.4 update will fix it, but I'm not so sure. Please palm, do something!!!

Mine has had serious problems recently receiving e-mails very late or they won't come through unless I visit a webpage. Not sure what's going on but when I do go check them I'll have like 10 waiting.

It doesn't work on any of my email accounts no matter if it's on evdo or wifi. It rarely ever works. So I set it to pop and it still won't work. I never receive new emails unless I open the app and maually tell it to check for new emails.

Gmail works fine. Yahoo doesn't push at all since 1.3.5. Both worked fine before 1.3.5.

So, I had an issue with my exchange account not pushing after I updated my pre to 1.3.5. To fix this I removed my exchange account and then added it again to the phone. Now I haven't had any more problems with it, even over wifi.

My suggestion is to just remove and readd your account and hopefully that will fix your issues.

Off target, but need help with my contacts. I saved them in csv from company server, then opened gmail contact to import, everything was fine except my email addresses aren't matching up with gmail field...instead they are under notes...any idea what I can do, I ve re-created csv files 2wice and of course have no idea how to contact goolge (no number or email support). Thanks in advance for any help.

try to export them as vcard then import them to gmail as vcard... works like a charm =)

The poll does not account for those of us who do not use "push"

I'm so glad you guys are bring attention to this issue. My email worked fine till I used wifi. I would have to open my email application inorder for the emails to update on my phone, this tottaly sucks. I hope palm is aware and will fix this quick.

no probs with either.. gmail or imap/pop.. both push fine..

I was having Gmail push problems with my Pre - got mine the day of original release with Sprint - and recently a friend saw a password of mine that I use for multiple accounts, including my Gmail. I doubt he would have shared it or anything, but for my own safety I decided to change my password. Since then it seems like pushing works flawlessly in EVDO or WiFi. Just my personal experience.

Your poll is missing one option: I don't use "push email."

My gmail amd yahoo have been acting weird since the last two updates or so. With and without wifi turned on. Sometimes if I don't go in my email and hit the refresh button, I wont get any incoming emails till up to a day or so later. Thought I was the only one having this issue. Wish it would go away soon and gimme back my push services like I once had. :-(

My gmail pushes fine over wifi, but my google calendar doesn't sync over wifi. It only syncs over EVDO. I've tried removing and re-adding it, but it doesn't fix the issue.

nice

ever since 1.3.5 my email syncing is hours behind

I had that exact problem with WiFi when my mail server was on the same network (my internal company mail server) as my Pre (on WiFi). I traced it to DNS. When using WiFi, my Pre would continue to use external DNS instead of internal DNS. This resulted in the Pre trying to contact my mail server over WiFi, but using the public (instead of private) IP address. Since my company firewall doesn't allow traffic in that way (using the public IP from inside the firewall), mail would fail whenever I had WiFi turned on while I was at work.

Mine doesn't push at all, since the last update. And I am so happy. I hate push. But syncing (delete off the server) is working great.

Fortunately, I haven't had any push email problems

The "push" on my Gmail account always works great while my Yahoo stopped altogether after one of the updates. All I had to do was to go to the Mail preferences on my Pre and re-enter my password. That made the "push" on Yahoo work again, however I won't get the notification on my phone for 10-15 mins after. Also my Pre gives me a "login error" notification for my Yahoo account maybe a few times a week. However, even with that error notification I still receive emails. Not a big deal for me.

no issues. Both exchange and yahoo work fine

no problem here, gmail and hotmail working fine.

Email polling sometimes stops after running an application like AccuRadio, but restarts if I restart the phone.

I'm glad I saw this article!! I thought it was my phone. I have been having problems with my Yahoo "push" ever since I downloaded webOS 1.3.5. It only "pushs" manually, by clicking on the refresh icon, or sometimes when I have the card open. Gmail and Hotmail accounts work fine. I have read some of the other comments, so I'm going to try and delete my Yahoo account, and then add it back on, to see if there is a difference.

I didn't notice a difference between wifi and EVDO pushing, but there's definitely an issue on both of the Pre's in our household. Mine has failed to look for email even when it wasn't on wifi. I thought it was due to a crappy connection or something.

I didn't see such an option on the poll.

I had this problem in October and googled "yellow triangle gmail web OS" and found a post (not finding it now) on another board:

Gmail times out users with crazy big inboxes (like mine) before it can synchronize all the emails.

the fix that was suggested (and works for me) is to either manage your inbox (move email to folders), or find a sync time (for me: 7 days instead of "all" that works for your inbox size. Sync time is defined under that account's settings in "preferences and accounts"

what if this problem comes from the wifi module turning off when the screen is off on battery power? Is it possible that switching netword messes with the IDLE session, ether on the phone or mail server's side? I've noticed that push over wifi is great for me when charging (which leaves wifi on even on standby), but is late when off the charger/touchstone. Anyone else notice the same?

I had to completely remove my work e-mail. My battery would only last about 3 hours and the mail app would lock the system. My personal e-mail addresses are working fine... it is only my work exchange after the last patch.

I cant take my phone into work, so I disabled the phone checking my e-mail accounts. This saves a lot of battery. The times I have had it on, it seems to work okay. Never noticed a diference between Wifi or EVDO. One of my accounts rejects my phone about half the time, but that account is hard to check anywere.

Similar problem here. Email does eventually push, but sometimes as much as an hour late. I only use gmail. Funny thing it, I made a new, DIFFERENT gmail account and set it up to push to my phone, and it works instantly. So it seems like its a problem on googles end?

I've been having nothing but troubles with the Pre since 1.3.5.

I've had issues with application installation, general phone stability, contact pictures losing sync, synergy losing sync, e-mail push/pull troubles...all in all, I've been very, very disappointed with Palm.

I was a very happy WebOS user, but since 1.3.5, I've been very very seriously thinking about jumping ship to Android.

Exchange is working fine, but Yahoo and Gmail are not working. My email only appears when I open the inbox.

My Gmail account works great, but my Yahoo emails are always late, and at least once a day my phone prompts me to re-enter my yahoo password.

Last week push stopped working from my EAS acct. I had to remove the acct and add it back before it started working again. Been fine since.

Haven't had a problem with Push Email through WiFi or 3G, however a EAS email accounts did not receive any emails until webOS 1.3.1 (Europe) was released.

I have a GSM Movistar Pre, and I had this problem.
I read a comment where someboy solved it deleting his email accounts and adding them again.
That didn't work for me, I had to use WebOS Doctor, but it's working fine now

I just noticed that my emails were coming in late... no difference whether I choose "as they come in" or "5 minutes" etc. They would come so late that when I checked them they would usually say "An hour ago" bahh. Is the pre not checking them?

To receive emails, I would have to go into that individual email box and it will check it automatically... which defeats the whole purpose of "push" or "check automatically"

Update: My Yahoo now works. I removed the account. Restarted the phone. And then installed Yahoo again. It works fine now!! Thank You Precentral!!! Now help me with my Call Waiting!!!

My Pre, while on the Touchstone connected over wifi, gets email from Exchange, IMAP and Gmail before my computer does. We recently switched over to corporate Gmail at my office, and I've just been keeping a browser page open for email, and my phone will indicate new messages before Outlook (Exchange) and Gmail say anything. Outlook is only a few seconds behind, but Gmail is easily a minute behind the Pre in getting my mail. Maybe that means that the Gmail web client has some longish polling interval, but it doesn't change the fact that the Pre updates significantly earlier every time.

I do wish that it would notice I read a message on my computer and clear the notifications. The email client seems to know the message has been read, but the notification doesn't disappear. If I read it on the Pre first, it's marked as read on every account I've used. I noticed today that drafts are saved on my Gmail account as well.